Why do you dislike Arturia VSTs?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Why do you dislike Arturia VSTs?

Their VSTs are bloated, take long to load and consume a lot of RAM.
84
44%
Their VST re-creations of classic synths sound nothing like the originals.
33
17%
Their synth presets sound mostly sh*te / are nothing I could use.
18
10%
Some of their VSTs have a gamey UI.
18
10%
Their VSTs sometimes crash my DAW.
7
4%
All of the above.
13
7%
All of the above plus something not mentioned here (please comment).
16
8%
 
Total votes: 189

Examigan
KVRAF
6682 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Post Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:44 pm

Introspective wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:22 pm OOC, I just Googled it, and one suggestion was to delete (on Windows) C:\ProgramData\Arturia\Presets\db.db3
I deleted that file, and then left the folder open to watch what happens. Then I ran CS-80 (it could be any of them I guess) and I could see it creating the DB file again and it slowly increased in size over the time it took to load the plugin.

boombaxx
KVRist
350 posts since 10 Mar, 2005

Post Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:48 pm

I said M3 i must have been confused do you get a BMW ssd M2 hd. M2 is pcie 16x i found it does make a big difference my opinion

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zerocrossing
KVRAF
11997 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Post Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:29 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:32 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:26 am The problem is not in his system.
Yes and no. See my test results. My super fast Windows PC exhibits the behavior. My super fast Mac laptop does not. Conclusion: Arturia is doing something wrong, but it is platform specific. If you're using a Mac, you may never see this issue at all and conclude that Windows users are likely just running ancient hardware. But in reality, it looks like Arturia's code is just slow as b@lls on even really fast Windows machines and runs pretty damn efficiently on M1 Macs. At least, that's what my tests are showing.
Well, my description about how they’re handling their UI resources is correct, so I’d say the difference you’re experiencing has something to do with how the graphics are being handled. Maybe something to do with video ram?

Still, regardless as to how fast your machine loads a plugin, it’s still an issue, even if it’s invisible to you. It’s eating space on your drives and in your RAM for no reason. They plain and simply should optimize their graphics to be leaner. If there was some actual benefit to the way they’re doing it, I’d say sure, but having each key be it’s own bitmap is just a rookie mistake. If one of my production artists submitted that to me I’d make them redo it.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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fmr
KVRAF
10806 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:00 am

felis wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:33 pm Are you still able to use presets OK after doing that?
I'm thinking .db3 is a database file.
db.db3 is indeed a database for the presets, but it will be rebuilt when absent. Sometimes I need to delete it to force instruments find presets I copied directly into the presets folders.

So, it's safe to delete it, and it may help to solve this problem, if it is related with instrument checking presets, and there are many.
Fernando (FMR)

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Zipede
KVRist
287 posts since 7 Feb, 2017

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:58 am

Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
Intel Core i9 10900K @ 3.70GHz
RAM
32.0GB
Motherboard
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. PRIME Z490-A (LGA1200)
Graphics
SAMSUNG (1920x1080@60Hz)
4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER (Gigabyte)
Storage
1863GB Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB (Unknown (SSD))
1863GB Seagate FireCuda 510 SSD ZP2000GM30001 (Unknown (SSD))
1862GB Western Digital WD Elements 25A2 USB Device (USB (SSD))
Audio
PreSonus Quantum 2626

DAW
Ableton Live 11 Suite Version 11.0.12

I notice only a small difference between shut down and restart, details below.

Performance after Shut down/Resart:
Ableton Live: 7 seconds
First Load of Jup-8 V4: 3 seconds
Second Load of Jup-8 V4: less than 1 second
Second Arturia plugin load (DX7V): 2.5 seconds
Analog Lab: 6 Seconds

Performance after just Resart:
Ableton Live: 5 seconds
First Load of Jup-8 V4: 3 seconds
Second Load of Jup-8 V4: less than 1 second
Second Arturia plugin load (DX7V): 2.5 seconds
Analog Lab: just over 6 Seconds

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Zipede
KVRist
287 posts since 7 Feb, 2017

Post Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:21 am

On my older i7 system, I moved the Resources folder from Drive C: to Drive D: using ASC, I always felt Arturia plugins loaded much slower after that. It could just be that my system was old and bloated, though I noticed that some files had remained on C: , is it possible something was left in the Registry too, and maybe that was causing conflicts.

Just a thought.

lolilol1975
KVRian
557 posts since 6 Dec, 2015

Post Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:13 pm

sys2074 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:20 am Gotta love the users who are calling for banning me over this poll! :lol:

Cant' have other opinions on the Internet can we! Your thin-skinned feelings are so easily offended that you want to get somebody banned or canceled over criticizing a corporation's products that are sold but have evidently several short-comings that deserve to be pointed out. Even if the points are subjective, they are still valid points for some.

The Internet used to be a cool place ... before a generation of easily-offended incels arrived. :tu:

Meanwhile, there are now over 50 users who agree with some or all of the points. Check it out Arturia!
fwiw I voted just to see the results, like most of the 150 users, I suspect. But I think your trollish "poll" sucks and is juvenile. Talking about incel, you totally exhibit the behaviour of one.
Also the mods should have closed this thread long ago.

PS: I apologize for not letting this stupid thread die but I needed to set the record straight.

David DS
KVRer
4 posts since 10 Nov, 2021

Post Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:24 am

EnGee wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:38 pmPigments 3 is also a CPU hog compared to synths like Bazille and Massive X.
I would agree with that. I have a Mid 2015 MBP 2.2ghz Quad. I know it's an old machine but one instance, depending on the patch, can take 30-40% of my CPU.

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W23
KVRian
512 posts since 22 Sep, 2016

Post Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:06 am

I’ve had a Keystep for a couple of years now, and on a whim installed the bundled Analog Lab lite plugin. I have a 3 year old XPS15 laptop. Not the fastest, but not bad either. I have to admit the plug-in sounds good, and better than I thought it would too. It sure uses a lot of CPU though. Diva still sounds better, and I think runs more efficiently than Analog Lab even in Divine mode. It’s all subjective though, and this is my own very unscientific take. I wound up uninstalling Analog Lab. I still have Pigments installed, but I don’t use it all that much either. I have about 3 other VSTs that I prefer using (Dune 3, Icarus 2, Zebra 2), just because I’m not watching that little CPU meter up at the top right hand corner of my screen so much.

I haven’t answered the survey. The answers themselves are kind of mean. Arturia software has its strong points too, and I’m not knocking the choices of those who swear by them

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vurt
addled muppet weed
93691 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:25 am

some of their staff, eat eggs.
advertise in this space.
call for rates.
555-wndrlnd

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EnGee
KVRAF
7842 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from Auckland, NZ

Post Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:18 pm

David DS wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:24 am
EnGee wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:38 pmPigments 3 is also a CPU hog compared to synths like Bazille and Massive X.
I would agree with that. I have a Mid 2015 MBP 2.2ghz Quad. I know it's an old machine but one instance, depending on the patch, can take 30-40% of my CPU.
It uses about 10-25% on Ryzen 5800x. Anyway, when I add more instances, it doesn't increase the cpu that much. It almost stay the same. So, in the end it still usable fine to me :)

Although this thread is about disliking Arturia, for me I'm using their products and they are from my main sound sources. Recently, I upgraded to Jup 8 v4 and it sounds similar to my DeepMind synth.

It would be great if they enhance the old engines of Arp2600v, Modular v and CS80v :) Those my least using synths. I don't dislike them, but they are not on par with other great synths like Buchla and jup 8.
Let's help the people in Ukraine by donating.

THE INTRANCER
KVRAF
2627 posts since 30 Dec, 2014

Post Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:26 pm

It's not what you have, it's what you do with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYdsA_TTJHY
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vurt
addled muppet weed
93691 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:58 pm

THE INTRANCER wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:26 pm It's not what you have, it's what you do with it.
cant do anything with it, if you dont have it.
so what you have also matters.
advertise in this space.
call for rates.
555-wndrlnd

Arnaud_Arturia
KVRer
10 posts since 25 May, 2018

Post Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:09 am

Hi guys!

I'm Arnaud from Arturia's QA department. We are currently investigating on these loading time and other performance issues to try to found the cause(s). I read with attention all your feedbacks related to this issue, sorry for people who have the problem, but thanks for reports, it can help to spot the bug!

For the moment I did several comparatives on my end (Both Mac OS and Windows) and yes, I found we have a little more loading times than some other plugin editors, but that's not such a huge loading time than some of you can have. For sure we won't release plugins with 56s of loading time if we find this in our tests or beta test, it's a real problem! ;)

Config used on my end:

* Apple Mac Mini M1 (2020) 8GB Ram
* Apple Mac Pro (late 2013) 3.7GHz Quad-core - Intel Xeon 8GB Ram
* Windows Intel I7-11700K 3.6GHz - 16GB Ram

What I can remove as causes reading this topic and with tests we did:

* Not related to computer configurations, because some of you have the issue with huge setups.
* Not related to external resources, I did the test with resources in an external HDD, and it increases a little the loading time, but still less than 10s.
* Not related to HDD, some of you experimenting the issue have setups with SSD.

If I'm not wrong, all people with the issue are on Windows? If that's it, I have just a little question, do you have an anti-virus or other security software activated when using your computer for music and which one is it?

If yes, could you try deactivate it and do same tests to see if loading time change? We recently found a big issue with an anti-ransomeware so it could be a clue.

Also, if some of you are interested to do beta test, let me know, I'll contact you in private to explain how we proceed. ;)

All the best,
Arnaud

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Introspective
KVRian
602 posts since 12 Jan, 2004 from Boston, MA

Post Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:20 am

Arnaud_Arturia wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:09 am If I'm not wrong, all people with the issue are on Windows? If that's it, I have just a little question, do you have an anti-virus or other security software activated when using your computer for music and which one is it?

If yes, could you try deactivate it and do same tests to see if loading time change? We recently found a big issue with an anti-ransomeware so it could be a clue.
Yes, Windows here.

Antivirus? Nothing bespoke. Does Windows' baked-in anti-virus count? If so, how would one disable it?

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