Phase Plant , OK Now what ?
- KVRian
- 876 posts since 12 Jan, 2004 from Boston, MA
Sorry to beat a deed hearse here, but...
I love wavetable synths. Like, really love them. I have almost all of them. Phase Plant is one exception. After reading a bit of this thread here, I was thinking "mmmmmaybe I should take another look!"
...And I did. I took another look.
...and AGAIN I am scared away.
I'm sure I'm just one tiny, stupid data point in a graph that says "this is selling like hotcakes!", so I'm positive my input means precisely dick, here, but...
I just have to say, since it is in the KvR spirit to bitch about things, that the way Phase Plant is bundled and marketed is, for me, COMPLETELY OFF-PUTTING.
I just want a synth, dammit. So I look and I see that Phase Plant is available as a stand-alone synth. But then I see all this garbage about how--oooh, you're going to want this, and oooH! You'll definitely want that!
Fine. So I'll look into the packages.
Well it took me five minutes to figure out where the damn packages were, because the "packages" they are desperate to sell you on are the subscriptions and the effects and the "everything we make!" jobbies. Not. Interested. Thanks.
But, indeed, there they are, buried on the site: the basic and pro packages. ...but ... wait, what am I looking at? Are these ... just effects bundles? So, hang on: I have to buy the synth AND one of these bundles?
What. The. Actual. F@(&. Is. Happening. Here.
This is absurd. Hard pass.
I hope they figure out how lame this all seems. To me, this smells like crippleware--expensive crippleware--that wants you to get inextricably embedded in some bloated system that really isn't actually about the synth, which is what I am here for. "Oh, the effects are great, I use them all the time!" is not an acceptable response, for me. I have enough effects. I DO NOT want more effects. Please stop it with the effects. And I'm not paying $10 a month to get a single synth (which is all I want). And I'm not paying $300 for a synth and a "minimal" package of effects to go with it to make it ... A SYNTH.
I expect this falls on deaf ears. It is selling quite well, I hear. Alas. Carry on! Glad to see it's doing well despite the marketing, I guess. I hear it's a great synth? Wish I had the tolerance to find out.
I love wavetable synths. Like, really love them. I have almost all of them. Phase Plant is one exception. After reading a bit of this thread here, I was thinking "mmmmmaybe I should take another look!"
...And I did. I took another look.
...and AGAIN I am scared away.
I'm sure I'm just one tiny, stupid data point in a graph that says "this is selling like hotcakes!", so I'm positive my input means precisely dick, here, but...
I just have to say, since it is in the KvR spirit to bitch about things, that the way Phase Plant is bundled and marketed is, for me, COMPLETELY OFF-PUTTING.
I just want a synth, dammit. So I look and I see that Phase Plant is available as a stand-alone synth. But then I see all this garbage about how--oooh, you're going to want this, and oooH! You'll definitely want that!
Fine. So I'll look into the packages.
Well it took me five minutes to figure out where the damn packages were, because the "packages" they are desperate to sell you on are the subscriptions and the effects and the "everything we make!" jobbies. Not. Interested. Thanks.
But, indeed, there they are, buried on the site: the basic and pro packages. ...but ... wait, what am I looking at? Are these ... just effects bundles? So, hang on: I have to buy the synth AND one of these bundles?
What. The. Actual. F@(&. Is. Happening. Here.
This is absurd. Hard pass.
I hope they figure out how lame this all seems. To me, this smells like crippleware--expensive crippleware--that wants you to get inextricably embedded in some bloated system that really isn't actually about the synth, which is what I am here for. "Oh, the effects are great, I use them all the time!" is not an acceptable response, for me. I have enough effects. I DO NOT want more effects. Please stop it with the effects. And I'm not paying $10 a month to get a single synth (which is all I want). And I'm not paying $300 for a synth and a "minimal" package of effects to go with it to make it ... A SYNTH.
I expect this falls on deaf ears. It is selling quite well, I hear. Alas. Carry on! Glad to see it's doing well despite the marketing, I guess. I hear it's a great synth? Wish I had the tolerance to find out.
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- KVRian
- 751 posts since 29 Jun, 2009
Exactly to both posts!
Pigments - Diva - Tal U-No-LX - Tal Sampler
- KVRian
- 812 posts since 11 Mar, 2010
I never formed an opinion about PhasePlant's selling system, but I've got to say: It's one of the best sounding synths around, IMO.
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15844 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
First of all, it works fine without all the effects and if you load a patch that uses something you don't have, it will still load and play correctly, so there is no need to rush into buying everything. Secondly, Kilohearts have sales throughout the year where several effects will be half price, so you can pick up the ones you want/need as they go on sale. They also give you loyalty vouchers now and then, so you can use those, too. It probably took me around a year to get everything but I didn't pay a whole lot for all of it and the cost was spread out.
OTOH, what if, like me, you already owned a bunch of effects and didn't want to have to pay for them twice? The effects are useful across a range of Kilohearts products and I used to use SnapHeap quite a bit, so I already had some of the effects before I bought PP. I don't think they are greedy but I do think PP is expensive. I like the company, though, and what they do because they approach it from a different angle to everyone else.
Nobody, including Kilohearts. You can modulate the filter just fine with the basic package - LFOs and Envelopes, just like every other synth. You only have to buy effects.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRian
- 1023 posts since 11 Nov, 2010 from ny
Do what you wish, but I think you are wrong on many points. They are quite forthcoming, and affordable considering you have multiple choices in which you can pay for PPIntrospective wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 pm Sorry to beat a deed hearse here, but...
I love wavetable synths. Like, really love them. I have almost all of them. Phase Plant is one exception. After reading a bit of this thread here, I was thinking "mmmmmaybe I should take another look!"
...And I did. I took another look.
...and AGAIN I am scared away.
I'm sure I'm just one tiny, stupid data point in a graph that says "this is selling like hotcakes!", so I'm positive my input means precisely dick, here, but...
I just have to say, since it is in the KvR spirit to bitch about things, that the way Phase Plant is bundled and marketed is, for me, COMPLETELY OFF-PUTTING.
I just want a synth, dammit. So I look and I see that Phase Plant is available as a stand-alone synth. But then I see all this garbage about how--oooh, you're going to want this, and oooH! You'll definitely want that!
Fine. So I'll look into the packages.
Well it took me five minutes to figure out where the damn packages were, because the "packages" they are desperate to sell you on are the subscriptions and the effects and the "everything we make!" jobbies. Not. Interested. Thanks.
But, indeed, there they are, buried on the site: the basic and pro packages. ...but ... wait, what am I looking at? Are these ... just effects bundles? So, hang on: I have to buy the synth AND one of these bundles?
What. The. Actual. F@(&. Is. Happening. Here.
This is absurd. Hard pass.
I hope they figure out how lame this all seems. To me, this smells like crippleware--expensive crippleware--that wants you to get inextricably embedded in some bloated system that really isn't actually about the synth, which is what I am here for. "Oh, the effects are great, I use them all the time!" is not an acceptable response, for me. I have enough effects. I DO NOT want more effects. Please stop it with the effects. And I'm not paying $10 a month to get a single synth (which is all I want). And I'm not paying $300 for a synth and a "minimal" package of effects to go with it to make it ... A SYNTH.
I expect this falls on deaf ears. It is selling quite well, I hear. Alas. Carry on! Glad to see it's doing well despite the marketing, I guess. I hear it's a great synth? Wish I had the tolerance to find out.
The Subscription monthly gives you back your $10 sub in the way of credits that after a year, you can apply toward whatever you want if you wanna buy PP
Secondly, PP in its basic form, is extremely powerful. Many users dont need all of the effects, so you can wait for sales and buy only what you need
Third, every single preset functions in full mode with all of the effects enabled. Only when you build your own presets, are you left with the basic package
Fourth, don't get so emotional about a piece of software....
- KVRAF
- 14943 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I’m listening. I feel the exact same way. I absolutely don’t get why anyone would buy Phase Plant. I found nothing exceptional about it and the only way it gets “good” is if you buy the full deal which is ridiculously expensive… and then I’m not sure it’s that good. I watched a ton of demos and tutorials and each time I walked away scratching my head saying, “this emperor is clearly naked.”Introspective wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 pm…This is absurd. Hard pass….
I expect this falls on deaf ears. It is selling quite well, I hear. Alas. Carry on! Glad to see it's doing well despite the marketing, I guess. I hear it's a great synth? Wish I had the tolerance to find out.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 14943 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I might consider Phase Plant if I got the full deal (I don’t need external use of effects) for $199, but not a dime more. Even then, I’m up to my ears in great wavetable synths, both hardware and software, so it would really have to be something.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 3502 posts since 12 Jan, 2019
Their model for selling can be compared to modular synths like Softube's and Cherry Audio's. Some of the Kilohearts effects are rudimentary in features. For example, the comb filter does not offer much in the way of parameters. Serum's and Zebra's comb filters have more options/parameters. I tend to want key tracking, and Kilohearts' comb filter does not have that option (Not sure if there is workaround). I get the impression that other virtual modular synths have better effects, but I've not spent much on Cherry Audio, and I've not tried Softube's version.
Still, Multipass and Snapheap have value on their own, so I feel getting everything is worth it for me. Phase Plant is my second favorite synth to patch from scratch (Zebra is my favorite).
Still, Multipass and Snapheap have value on their own, so I feel getting everything is worth it for me. Phase Plant is my second favorite synth to patch from scratch (Zebra is my favorite).
Doing nothing is only fun when you have something you are supposed to do.
- KVRAF
- 14943 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I don’t think it’s the same. When you buy Voltage Modular and then get the PolyMoog clone you get a full synth and it becomes part of the modular system with all the parameters open for modulation. When you buy Softube Modular and then their tape delay, you get a very full featured great sounding tape delay and the ability to bring it into their modular environment. From what I can tell, the Kilohearts effects are super rudimentary.Dirtgrain wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:21 am Their model for selling can be compared to modular synths like Softube's and Cherry Audio's. Some of the Kilohearts effects are rudimentary in features. For example, the comb filter does not offer much in the way of parameters. Serum's and Zebra's comb filters have more options/parameters. I tend to want key tracking, and Kilohearts' comb filter does not have that option (Not sure if there is workaround). I get the impression that other virtual modular synths have better effects, but I've not spent much on Cherry Audio, and I've not tried Softube's version.
Still, Multipass and Snapheap have value on their own, so I feel getting everything is worth it for me. Phase Plant is my second favorite synth to patch from scratch (Zebra is my favorite).
I did sort of like the modular nature of the thing, and it sounded fine, but $499 for the whole deal? Seems ridiculous to me. Again, if I could have Phase Plant for $199, I’d probably be in, but no more. There’s just too much great competition.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
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- KVRist
- 185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham
Like several contributors here, I had reservations about their pricing policy. However, after a year of using the full package (all their plugins) I would say it was value for money. I spent $500 but I got PP with all the snap ins integrated. It was a lot of fun making patches for PP - I approached sound design in a fresh way and it made me more original when using other synths and effects. My only gripe is that they use the resonator to do what most other synths do with comb filter resonance, and the comb filter therefore is a bit weak - but likely that is due to some sound theory misunderstanding on my part
Zen
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15844 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
$499 includes stuff you can't use inside Phase Plant, like MultiPass and their big CarveEQ and SliceEQ effects. If you buy PP for $99 when it's on sale and then pick up extra bits and pieces as they go on sale, or spend another $99 on the Starter Toolbox, you'll have something very unique and powerful for under $200.
Honestly, PhasePlant is one of the most unique synths out there. If the best someone can manage is to call it yet another wavetable synth, then that says a lot more about that person's blinkered viewpoint than it does about PhasePlant.
Really, like what? What other VSTi out there can have 50 oscillators? 60? 100? or 40 filters? or 60? or 100? How about the three lane bus into the master output? That's pretty much unique, too, I think.
Honestly, PhasePlant is one of the most unique synths out there. If the best someone can manage is to call it yet another wavetable synth, then that says a lot more about that person's blinkered viewpoint than it does about PhasePlant.
A poor workman will always blame his tools. I own both Faturator and Trash and I use Faturator a lot more often than I use Trash. I also find kHs One to be a really handy, versatile synth capable of doing a lot of things really well. It's one of my go-tos whenever I am importing an old song into Studio One for the first time, because I am confident it will be able to substitute for anything from any of those projects and do the part justice. To be fair, I got for $19 or something and didn't think much of it at the time. It was only later on I discovered it's knack for substituting for other synths.For instance faturator just sounded like a waveshaper (Similar to what you get with trash) except you have no control. Their synthesizer khz One also sounded like a synthedit synth and was kind of laughable compared to other stuff that came out at the same time.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRist
- 185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham
In PP you can make the key tracking via modulators - I agree though, that a key tracking on/off is easier. I also thought "$499 WTF" but between $200 and $500 (for me) there is only Falcon and Omnisphere to compete, and I saw PP as much more intuitive to work with than Falcon and Omnisphere synthesis too centred on samples.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:32 amI don’t think it’s the same. When you buy Voltage Modular and then get the PolyMoog clone you get a full synth and it becomes part of the modular system with all the parameters open for modulation. When you buy Softube Modular and then their tape delay, you get a very full featured great sounding tape delay and the ability to bring it into their modular environment. From what I can tell, the Kilohearts effects are super rudimentary.Dirtgrain wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:21 am Their model for selling can be compared to modular synths like Softube's and Cherry Audio's. Some of the Kilohearts effects are rudimentary in features. For example, the comb filter does not offer much in the way of parameters. Serum's and Zebra's comb filters have more options/parameters. I tend to want key tracking, and Kilohearts' comb filter does not have that option (Not sure if there is workaround). I get the impression that other virtual modular synths have better effects, but I've not spent much on Cherry Audio, and I've not tried Softube's version.
Still, Multipass and Snapheap have value on their own, so I feel getting everything is worth it for me. Phase Plant is my second favorite synth to patch from scratch (Zebra is my favorite).
I did sort of like the modular nature of the thing, and it sounded fine, but $499 for the whole deal? Seems ridiculous to me. Again, if I could have Phase Plant for $199, I’d probably be in, but no more. There’s just too much great competition.
Like you said - there are cherry audio and Softube , but for my mind , the workflow and UI system of Kiloheartz PP seemed much more suited to me than those Modular systems.
Zen
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- KVRist
- 185 posts since 29 May, 2013 from Durham
BONES wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:26 amAgreed -If the best someone can manage is to call it yet another wavetable synth, then that says a lot more about that person's blinkered viewpoint than it does about PhasePlant.
I use the sampler, Noise and analog generators significantly more than the wavetables -- the editor took me some time to get used to , because I am spoiled by serum's god of an editor, but PP's is very useful.
Zen