Phase Plant , OK Now what ?

[LeVzi]

Doesnt give all the effects does it, each bundle offers effects but not them all, if you want them all, you have to buy the synth again.

wat?

[psynical]

Doesnt give all the effects does it, each bundle offers effects but not them all, if you want them all, you have to buy the synth again. Which part of that isnt sinking in ?

You're so completely full of shit dude, as you've already found that this isn't true:

I just had word from the support , that Toolbox Professional is what I would need minus 4, I think, effects, that aren't too essential, its 249 Euros, I see a discount from 600 odd euros called bundle price, I assume that's because i own the synth.

KH has the best upgrade policy of any developer in existence and the price they're offering you there only includes all of the effects and not the synth.

So I picked up Phase Plant because I know its potential for sound design, and I was aware that the internal effects are optional extras.
I knew I was going to regret getting Phaseplant because of this exact reason

So to summarize, you knew what you were getting into, you knew you were going to regret it, but you did it anyway. And now you're here, looking for others to validate your feelings of regret.

[gondii]

250€ now would translate to 150€ during a sale I believe.

The Phase Plant + Pro fx bundle full price appears to be 350€ on the Kilohearts website and $299 at JRRShop. The coupon codes appear to not work anymore (they used to), but that is a massive difference in price. Like I said, PP + pro bundle used to go as low as $170 at JRR before. Definitely better than directly through KH website.

Personally, I find 250€ for just the pro fx upgrade (not the synth) to be overpriced as well... I spent about 280€ over the course of a year for Ultimate and that I found okay, but also not cheap.

[Introspective]

I would go in on that, but all the buzz seems to be that the minimal version is effectively crippled. It's not clear to me what the truth is. Someone here was saying there's no control over the filter?

That's just perception, the reality is that the base package is completely usable out of the box.

Noted.

I wish there were a way to demo it. ...the cheap version, I mean. They are so desperate to get you fully embedded in the system that the only demo they have is for EVERYTHING. Not a fan. ...So I demo everything, then I buy the basic package, and I find I can't do some percentage of the things the demo showed me I could? How is that a positive user experience?

I just don't like their marketing, full stop.

*cough* Zebra *cough* Falcon *cough* BitWig *cough*

Kind of proves my point when you have to name the biggest, most expensive and well regarded VSTi, and then a whole f**king DAW, doesn't it? It puts PP in rare and esteemed company, where it belongs.

I wouldn't know, because the marketing puts me off so hard!

Also: it's worth noting that BitWig costs as much as Kilohearts' full package. ...I think that proves my point about PP being grossly over-priced.

...Also, I was just countering your "unique" comment, which was false. ...I didn't mention the fact that: personally, I think it's a stupid idea. Three lanes? WTF? Why?! ...I suppose there are some weird edge-cases where it might be handy, but ... I dunno. It's just weird to me.

Sure, I can see using it for multiband or mid/side processing, but I expect to do that in my DAW, thanks. I think my problem with it comes down to the fact that I don't want a synth engine embedded in an effects system. ...and that's what this is! Ah-HA! I've got it now. This is not a synth that has some robust effects you can use with it. This was an effects ecosystem where someone thought "hey, let's put a synth in here."

I get it now.

...and that's lame.

Thanks! I now know that I don't care about PP. I feel better. Apologies for thinking out loud in public. ...but that's the internet for you, I suppose.

In fact, I begged Rich for ages to do a cut-down DUNE without that shit or the layers but he wasn't interested. I wouldn't give a shit about modifying factory presets if it was a lot easier to make your own.

YES! If there were a petition for this, I would gladly sign. UGH. Layers are ... lame. They're mostly there so patch designers can make a handful of "wow" patches that help sell the synth. Other than that, they basically just obfuscate everything. (Sure, a handful of people appreciate them, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. ...unless it involves marketing a product!)

[Introspective]

Stacking, splitting and modulating the FX is what PP is all about.

I do all that stuff at the DAW level in Bitwig. To me, the DAW is the place for that as then I can do it with FX from any developer.

But hey, great that there are a wide variety of tools for different users.

THIS.

[Introspective]

One minute of reading should make all of it perfectly, so i can't understand how you were confused about any of it.

I was confused about all of it.

This so very, VERY far from "perfectly clear."

Just sayin'.

[LeVzi]

Doesnt give all the effects does it, each bundle offers effects but not them all, if you want them all, you have to buy the synth again. Which part of that isnt sinking in ?

You're so completely full of shit dude, as you've already found that this isn't true:

I just had word from the support , that Toolbox Professional is what I would need minus 4, I think, effects, that aren't too essential, its 249 Euros, I see a discount from 600 odd euros called bundle price, I assume that's because i own the synth.

KH has the best upgrade policy of any developer in existence and the price they're offering you there only includes all of the effects and not the synth.

So I picked up Phase Plant because I know its potential for sound design, and I was aware that the internal effects are optional extras.
I knew I was going to regret getting Phaseplant because of this exact reason

So to summarize, you knew what you were getting into, you knew you were going to regret it, but you did it anyway. And now you're here, looking for others to validate your feelings of regret.

OK Mr Brown Noser, we get it, you are a Kilohearts fanboi. As I stated ORIGINALLY I wanted the synth, and I knew the fact I was going to have to buy effects additionally, but what I didn't know that they don't have an option to get JUST the effects. The full suite comes with the synth AGAIN, inflating the price. The starter and professional suites still dont cover ALL the bases, which is deliberate.

So I am not sure which part of your tiny brain isn't understanding that , but maybe now you'll understand a tad better and stop being such a pathetic little fanboi.

Oh btw, as you can see, i'm not alone in my feelings, but nor am I anti Kilohearts because I know the potential for this in terms of sound design.

Capiche ? **Drops mic**

[chagzuki]

It took me quite a while trying to understand the differences in the bundles before deciding to buy. Not super-easy, but there is a logic to it. I do think the lowest tier is gimped, and it's worth spending more since multipass and snapheap provide a lot of value both inside Phaseplant and to create FX chains in the DAW.

[gaggle of hermits]

As I stated ORIGINALLY I wanted the synth, and I knew the fact I was going to have to buy effects additionally, but what I didn't know that they don't have an option to get JUST the effects.

toolbox professional contains all the regular snapin effects - and that is an effects-only bundle. you'll find it in the shop under "effect bundles", which is a bit of a clue.

if you want faturator, disperser and the two eqs, you can get those separately - chances are you'll get vouchers that will let you pick them off one or two at a time. I think pieberger already pointed out that one of them you can probably pick up from an old copy of CM.

or you can buy the ultimate - which has all those plus One and phase plant - which will be priced as an upgrade if you're logged in.

or wait for a sale while you fulminate about the injustice of the world.

capiche?

[progtronic]

So much drama...

Both vstbuzz and audioplugin.deals have sold (what was basically) Toolbox Pro for around $100. I picked that up (from audioplugin.deals)... and months later used Kilohearts Phase Plant + Toolbox PROFESSIONAL combination discount, and got Phase Plant for around $40.

Now I just upgrade Toolbox Pro when they come out with a few new plugins. Like, right now... I can upgrade and get Convolver for $ 14.18.

So, the deals are out there for this stuff... you just gotta be patient (which is asking a lot... apparently).

[BONES]

They are so desperate to get you fully embedded in the system that the only demo they have is for EVERYTHING. Not a fan.

That's not "desperation", that's the way their licensing system works and you don't actually need to install everything, it's just that everything can be installed and licensed through their little utility. You start their little app, you pick which things you want to install to trial and it will only install/activate those things. But it all works through their "HeartCore", so that gets installed even if you just bought one Snap-In. It's really col because you don't have to f**k around with individual things, you update everything in one hit. It's actually quite clever and I really like it.

Also: it's worth noting that BitWig costs as much as Kilohearts' full package. ...I think that proves my point about PP being grossly over-priced.

I'm not disagreeing that it's expensive at full price but only an idiot would pay full price. I have everything now and I've only spent a couple of hundred.

Three lanes? WTF? Why?! ...I suppose there are some weird edge-cases where it might be handy, but ... I dunno. It's just weird to me.

Why not 3? Why 2? It's just a choice they made, like maybe so you can do High/Mid/Low processing separately?

Sure, I can see using it for multiband or mid/side processing, but I expect to do that in my DAW, thanks.

Yeah, there is nothing more infuriating that being given options, is there?

I think my problem with it comes down to the fact that I don't want a synth engine embedded in an effects system.

No, it's not. It's a synth that lives within an ecosystem that includes a lot of effects but it works perfectly well without any of them. You can use as much or as little as you need, which is the attraction for me. i.e. If I only need one oscillator and a filter, that's all I need to load and all I need to deal with. I realise that most people will see the opposite side of things, that you can keep adding stuff until your CPU fries itself trying to keep up, but I like the fact that I can use just the bare minimum of features I need and get the job done in the most elegant, straightforward way. I have built templates to facilitate that, almost like Reaktor ensembles, to make it as quick and easy as possible.

[teilo]

The polyphonic filter is just meh, and very limited.

limited in what way?

Limited sonically. No color or non-linearities. No overdrive / feedback. Nothing like a comb, formant, ladder or non-linear filter exists in the generator section. In most synths, filter choices like this are pre-effects.

I have high hopes for Phase Plant 2. My #1 ask is for polyphonic effects, mostly so I can use the filters. The filter effects are excellent. The polyphonic filter is just meh, and very limited.

There are polyphonic effects now, so any of the filters can be used polyphonic. I assume you mean the different filters to be added to the generator section, correct? This I really hope as well. When the non-linear filter was released, I also sent in a request and they said that so many people were asking for it that they are considering it. I really hope it's part of V2.

Oh, wow. I totally missed the Poly button. When was that added?

Well, that's much better. Of course, that is limited by the routing, so it's less flexible than were the filters available in the generator section, but that still opens up many more possibilities.

[teilo]

Three lanes? WTF? Why?! ...I suppose there are some weird edge-cases where it might be handy, but ... I dunno. It's just weird to me.

It's not weird at all once you realize that one or more of the lanes can be configured as polyphonic. This is the only way, for example, so use the comb, formant, non-linear, and ladder filters polyphonically such that, say, an envelope on gate triggers separately for each note. This is critical, because the filter in the generator section is pretty limited.

But you don't generally want a reverb / chorus / etc. to be polyphonic.

So three lanes make total sense.

[gondii]

Oh, wow. I totally missed the Poly button. When was that added?

I think that was available since launch. Killer feature, but also to be used with caution, because it can get pretty CPU intensive. Only synth I know that offers this, aside from maybe MSoundFactory that has a number of per voice fx.

[LeVzi]

As I stated ORIGINALLY I wanted the synth, and I knew the fact I was going to have to buy effects additionally, but what I didn't know that they don't have an option to get JUST the effects.

toolbox professional contains all the regular snapin effects - and that is an effects-only bundle. you'll find it in the shop under "effect bundles", which is a bit of a clue.

if you want faturator, disperser and the two eqs, you can get those separately - chances are you'll get vouchers that will let you pick them off one or two at a time. I think pieberger already pointed out that one of them you can probably pick up from an old copy of CM.

or you can buy the ultimate - which has all those plus One and phase plant - which will be priced as an upgrade if you're logged in.

or wait for a sale while you fulminate about the injustice of the world.

capiche?

So thanks for proving my point, you cannot buy the entire effects suite in one buy, which was the whole reason for the post.

Nice one.