KVR Audio

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:20 am

Like a builder that accepts money for loads of contracts, declares himself bankrupt and is working on next doors house a week later while your house is quarter finished. That is what they are, they owed people money and made themselves bankrupt (i.e. went into administration) to get out of owing that money. Thats the kind of people they are. "Roli reported pre-tax losses of £34.1 million from an income of £11.4 million in the 18 months leading to the end of June 2019". Somebody is owed that money, and I suppose it is your own personal preference to deal with them or not. I don't own their products and never will as I would not invest in companies that follow such practices.

mxbf · Post by **mxbf** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:40 am

products look cool but ive heard nothing but bad things about them otherwise. you'd think they'd want to do a good job now with a second chance ... but doesn't sound like that's how things are working.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:51 am

Then that's what you have chosen to hear because I've had nothing but great experiences from Roli. Nine hardware products and all the associated software and when I've had a problem, mostly my own fault, they 've sorted it out in a timely manner on each occasion. Most of the BS you hear is from people who've never owned any of their products.

winkie00 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:20 amI don't own their products and never will as I would not invest in companies that follow such practices.

You're not "investing in a company", FFS, you are buying a product. If the product does something you need, then you give them money and get the product. There's no "investment". Personally, the fact they owed so much money tends to make me think they should have charged a lot more for their products, so I got some excellent bargains!

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:03 pm

Maybe, maybe not.

winkie00 · Post by **winkie00** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:08 pm

You got a squishy midi keyboard. Bargain.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:12 am

Well, at least they have products. Where's Osmose? What happened Erae Touch? Can you still buy Sensel Morph?

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Sun May 15, 2022 7:25 am

I put in a ticket tonight with ROLI. We'll see how long it takes to an answer back. Previously, I've had mostly good experiences, though at the beginning of MPE's introduction, there did seem to be a fair amount of guesswork involved in their answers. Still, they did stick with the issue until it came clean.

Most recently, I've had major issues (seemingly out of nowhere) with both Strobe 2 and Cypher 2 and exactly the same type of issues as well in both 2D (standard MIDI) and 5D (MPE) modes: dropping notes in both chords and single lines, major crashes (even on factory patches.) This has happened in Studio One 5, Bitwig 4.2.3 and Waveform 12. All three have exhibited the same behavior with Strobe 2 and Cypher 2. And, of course, they haven't been updated in, I think, well over a year (more?) Both are at 2.6.1.7, I believe.

And Bones, I've got a question for you, if you'd be so kind: have you noticed Studio One 5 not recognizing "lift" when using Equator 2 for MPE? Have you a work-around? I'd appreciate it if you could share it. Thanks!

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon May 16, 2022 5:05 am

No, I haven't but I've not had any reason to look. If I think of it, I'll set something up and test it. The only thing I can think of that I'd use LIFT for is to get that "chunka" sound at the end of a guitar note. Although that's more like a NOTE OFF thing, with lift you could be a bit more or less subtle with it. What do you use LIFT for?

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 5:05 am No, I haven't but I've not had any reason to look. If I think of it, I'll set something up and test it. The only thing I can think of that I'd use LIFT for is to get that "chunka" sound at the end of a guitar note. Although that's more like a NOTE OFF thing, with lift you could be a bit more or less subtle with it. What do you use LIFT for?

Kind of like what you suggest with the "chunka", a ping at the end of a note is what I tend towards when using lift.

The weird part about all of this is that I noticed not only is there no "ping" (e.g.) at the end of the note(s), but the lift meter window in Equator 2's GUI verified that lift wasn't "getting to" the plug-in at all: there is absolutely no movement on that graph. I'm not sure at all that this was always this way or has been dropped as of the last update of Studio One 5. As (I think) with most people, while lift is a nice effect when it's used, it's probably the very last of the MPE dimension utilized, hence it's not often missed when it doesn't occur.

The other truly odd thing is that this error comes at a time when both Cypher 2 and Strobe 2 are also getting progressively less stable: they both recently are dropping notes both in chords and even melodies (so it may not be due to the way they allocate voices used; I doubt slow melodies should be an issue) and, this next being a more long-standing problem, they crash often when using patches with high voice counts. Lowering the number of voices helps a bit here, but it's hardly a panacea. Since there's been no update on either one of these VST's for years, it may be time to toss in the towel on them. It's a shame; I really like the way they sound and the TransMod system is great for use with wind controllers.

So, thanks much for checking this out when you get a chance. I appreciate it.

Blaster · Post by **Blaster** » Mon May 16, 2022 9:38 pm

Blaster wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:29 am I'm trying to get a license transferred. I'm waiting for 19 days now without reply. I'm happy that the potential buyer is patient until the end of this month, but it leaves only a fews days for Roli to get their act together (I don't think they will).

What is their support email?

In the end it took 33 days, but I'm happy that it eventually succeeded.

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Mon May 16, 2022 10:36 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 5:05 am No, I haven't but I've not had any reason to look. If I think of it, I'll set something up and test it. The only thing I can think of that I'd use LIFT for is to get that "chunka" sound at the end of a guitar note. Although that's more like a NOTE OFF thing, with lift you could be a bit more or less subtle with it. What do you use LIFT for?

When you get to it (and just so we're on the same page), if you could, just use the factory patch "Copernicus Synthus Galacticus" to see if lift is recognized. That patch has all 5 dimensions in use (and the effect of lift is quite obvious), so it's pretty effective at picking up the issue. It's the patch I used as the basis to report the problem to Presonus. I figured that if they had Equator 2 at all, they'd probably have that patch (also, with it seeming to be a factory-supplied patch with which ROLO likes to demonstrate MPE, I thought it to be a safe bet.)

Again, thanks for doing this!

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon May 16, 2022 11:39 pm

Confirmed! I just had a look and it works fine in standalone but inside S1 there is no movement on the LIFT graph at all. I tried a few different patches, including the Copernicus one, and they were all the same. I also made sure that "Enable MPE" was checked but it made no difference. It's the same for both Equator and Equator 2, so I doubt the problem is with Roli, probably best to raise a support ticket with Presonus.

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Tue May 17, 2022 2:19 am

BONES wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:39 pm Confirmed! I just had a look and it works fine in standalone but inside S1 there is no movement on the LIFT graph at all. I tried a few different patches, including the Copernicus one, and they were all the same. I also made sure that "Enable MPE" was checked but it made no difference. It's the same for both Equator and Equator 2, so I doubt the problem is with Roli, probably best to raise a support ticket with Presonus.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you have the problem, but glad to hear that it's not just me. I am so happy for those meters on the GUI of Equator 2; we know that the signal is filtered out before it hits the VST. So, no, it's not an issue with ROLI (in one sense, it couldn't have been anyway: Equator 2 MPE LIFT works fine in both Bitwig 4.2.3 and Waveform 12 and registers in the meters when so doing), so it's got to be an issue with Studio One 5.5.

I opened a ticket a couple of nights ago and a techie got back to me today. I've recorded a .wav in both Studio One 5.5 and Bitwig 4.2.3 demonstrating the difference in the sound when LIFT is not there, took screen shots with arrows pointing to the difference in the meters showing how Bitwig registers LIFT and Studio One does not, and saved a file of the demonstration in Studio One. That should do it, I would think.

Thanks again for checking this out! Hopefully, they fix the issue soon. I just wish I knew when it showed up. Was it there all along and everyone missed it? I kind of doubt that. More likely: it is fresh with the last update.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue May 17, 2022 3:18 am

I'd never have noticed because I don't use LIFT at all and I pretty much always use my Seaboard and Lightpads in Single Channel or Piano Mode. MPE doesn't really interest me, I'm more into the Blocks for their size and ease of use. I'd probably rather have a Lumi Keys, except you can't buy them in Australia and they won't ship me one, either.

dlandis · Post by **dlandis** » Tue May 17, 2022 3:33 am

BONES wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 3:18 am I'd never have noticed because I don't use LIFT at all and I pretty much always use my Seaboard and Lightpads in Single Channel or Piano Mode. MPE doesn't really interest me, I'm more into the Blocks for their size and ease of use. I'd probably rather have a Lumi Keys, except you can't buy them in Australia and they won't ship me one, either.

I use MPE only for specific (read: "usually weird") situations. I find it necessary not to approach the blocks from a keyboard perspective. For most people, I imagine Lumi Keys would work better. Pretty soon, I hoping to get the Seaboard Rise 2. I keep my 2 Seaboard Blocks, LightPad, and Touch Block in Rise configuration anyway almost all the time. So, I'll sell of the Seaboards at least and probably even the Lightpad and Touch Blocks and get the full Rise 2.

Again, I really appreciate you doing this for me; I've submitted the ticket, sent in the files showing the issue, and mentioned that you've replicated the problem as well. Hopefully, that does it and the next update has the error fixed.

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