Have we reached the end of hardware synths with software plug-ins?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Urs
u-he
26669 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Sat May 21, 2022 10:28 pm

teilo wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 3:45 pm
Urs wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 2:39 pm
hebex wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 1:29 pmthe synth voices interact with each other
?
Richtig? :roll:
It's a novel argument in a discussion that was settled many moons ago. Best ignored.

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pixel85
KVRAF
1711 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Sat May 21, 2022 10:41 pm

Hardware is more fun to use than software*. It's a fact. It's written in Bible and every other "saint book". Anyone who disagrees is simply unworthy and should be burned together with witches :P

*Even writing this makes people angry, which just proves that it's fun ;)
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

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Septic Underground
KVRist
43 posts since 27 Dec, 2021 from Nederland

Post Sat May 21, 2022 10:46 pm

BONES wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 5:21 pm Because, as someone who spent roughly 20 years working exclusively with hardware and the last 20 years working with software and hardware, if someone were to ask my advice I would tell them straight up that hardware is a waste of time, energy and money and they shouldn't bother with it at all. And if they pointed out to me that I have a lot of hardware, I'd admit that it's purely down to habit, that none of my hardware synths are really worth owning, that the decisions to buy them were impulsive and illogical and I regret each and every one of them. And every word of that is true. Hardware doesn't sound as good, it's nowhere near as reliable or portable and maintenance costs can be horrendous, even if it never breaks.

Then you suspect wrong. There is nothing about hardware, not one tiny thing, that I find preferable to software..
Same story here. I for instance have a Roland system-8 that is not even connected in the audiopath, never use its internal engine, but do the cloud version. I only use it as a controller for the cloud and other retro VIs.

And I had em all, moogs, akais, korgs, rolands, yamaha you name it I most probably had em one time. Also the same for all those vintage efx, vocoders, filterbanks, delays/phasers/flangers etc. Many racks stacked and stuffed with 5U modular.

Sold it all and use only some nice controllers and a DAW :)

glokraw
KVRAF
8531 posts since 6 Oct, 2004

Post Sat May 21, 2022 10:55 pm

ROTMetro wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 5:22 pm Their whole lives are online

My daughter simply didn't relate to the piano,
Do you know why she doesn't relate to a large loud instrument in a homes public space, that stands the test of time in both modern music, and ancient music performed currently?

Pretty easy to connect the dots. 'Online' is highly over-rated. Happy for your daughters fun activities and skills, but my post was more about people of whatever age group, unwilling to grind out expertise with audible music instruments. Two very different scenarios.

You nicely remind me that kids aren't carved in stone. Maybe someday, she'll love playing a piano, be it wood and metal, plastic and circuitry, or virtual, all can be mastered, or at least enjoyed along the way :hyper:
My instrumental music is now on Spotify, Youtube, a playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtlOOPh ... 8-_TqqZ7ij
Franklin Cheney (except on April 15th)

SLiC
KVRAF
8882 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sat May 21, 2022 10:56 pm

I’ve been doing this for 30 years and I don’t think I have ever seen a time when there has been more new affordable and interesting hardware synths (and Eurorack) coming out…so I would say the answer to the OPs question is no, irrespective as to peoples views as to if hardware is necessary or even desirable…this is a forum for software synths after all, so there may be some bias!

When I was young I got in to music to be in a band and play live, hardware facilitates that…sitting in front of a computer on my own with virtual instruments just doesn’t seem as rock and all…but maybe that the difference in being a producer or a musician that inspires to play his music live.
PC + S49, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, Pro 3, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack + OXI One, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals (Zoia, Beebo)

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machinesworking
KVRAF
4456 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sun May 22, 2022 12:31 am

Never particularly gotten the point of these arguments?
I started off playing in a band using a Mac+ with MOTU Performer, a Mirage and TX81Z attached while the humans played guitar, drums and a Moog. I still think that's more or less the best of all worlds, replace the Mac + with a modern laptop plus soft synths,and it's infinitely more powerful I suppose.

One thing I don't think anyone has touched on. Hardware never really dies because all the knobs and dials are already "mapped", for live use, it's supposedly more stable, and this is a big one.. the IT crowd loves messing with modulars over computers when they get done with their HTML coding Job at Amazon.

I'm mostly software, three hardware synths, mostly not well, or at all represented in software. After years of using guitar Rig, amplitude etc. I'm realizing I like playing through a real amp, but only by a small margin.

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machinesworking
KVRAF
4456 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Sun May 22, 2022 12:36 am

SLiC wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 10:56 pm When I was young I got in to music to be in a band and play live, hardware facilitates that…sitting in front of a computer on my own with virtual instruments just doesn’t seem as rock and all…but maybe that the difference in being a producer or a musician that inspires to play his music live.
Just depends, definitely seen some laptop bands where it wasn't a bother and some boring guitar bass drums bands. I suppose people connect with a drummer more than anything else live, so I've seen plenty of electronic acts with a live drummer, and that changes it all. You're not going to care whether it's an electric piano or a guy with a laptop and MIDI keyboard. Keyboard players more to be heard than seen.

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Septic Underground
KVRist
43 posts since 27 Dec, 2021 from Nederland

Post Sun May 22, 2022 4:14 am

machinesworking wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:31 am
One thing I don't think anyone has touched on. Hardware never really dies because all the knobs and dials are already "mapped", for live use.
This would be the difference indeed, live vs studio work. For live and/or a musiscian vs a (home)producer with a access to a few vs alot of instruments.

But with a good configured (multi)touch display and/or other things like MPmidi controllers ( https://mpmidi.com/features ) you can go far for controlling synths.

I use a System-8 for instance and a Dtronics DT300 as a juno remote etc. I also have a Novation RemoteSL + Remote Zero that can be mapped very deep incl sysex etc.

So yes in a live setting HW (as a muscian in a band) has def. advantages, in the studio not so much.

SLiC
KVRAF
8882 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sun May 22, 2022 4:31 am

machinesworking wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:36 am
SLiC wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 10:56 pm When I was young I got in to music to be in a band and play live, hardware facilitates that…sitting in front of a computer on my own with virtual instruments just doesn’t seem as rock and all…but maybe that the difference in being a producer or a musician that inspires to play his music live.
Just depends, definitely seen some laptop bands where it wasn't a bother and some boring guitar bass drums bands. I suppose people connect with a drummer more than anything else live, so I've seen plenty of electronic acts with a live drummer, and that changes it all. You're not going to care whether it's an electric piano or a guy with a laptop and MIDI keyboard. Keyboard players more to be heard than seen.
You may be right, I was always a guitarist or bass player in bands but my synth/keyboard hero's were very much front of house in prog rock and rock bands! Yes, Floyd, Genesis, Deep Purple, Rush etc- I cant imagen it with Rick Wakeman behind a laptop!

http://www.lipscomb.umn.edu/rock/photos/wakeman.jpg
PC + S49, Studio One, BWS, Live (+PUSH2), FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths (Summit, Hydrasynth, Pro 3, P8), A4 + RYTM, MPC Live, Poly Tracker, Eurorack + OXI One, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and Pedals (Zoia, Beebo)

Shabdahbriah
KVRAF
8291 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Seattle

Post Sun May 22, 2022 4:56 am

And then... there was no electricity. And the price of batteries made them all but unattainable to the masses. And the voltage dependent masses wailed for lack of understanding as to what they should do.

... and bagpipes became the new normal.

The End.
I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil

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vurt
addled muppet weed
95452 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun May 22, 2022 5:00 am

BONES wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 5:21 pm
teilo wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:15 amI predict that we will eventually see a new generation of keyboard/controllers to make virtual synths just as much a pleasure to use as the hardware:
Mine already are, thanks to Roli.
cryophonik wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:19 amYeah, hardware is dead and software killed it, yet my Sweetwater catalog has more pages of hardware synths than ever,
Maybe that's indicative of a failing industry diversifying in an attempt to find a new niche that works for their business?
synths are backordered, retail prices are increasing due to supply/demand
No, prices are increasing due to a global semiconductor shortage that is affecting dozens of industries. e.g. New car wait times are out to 2+ years for some popular models and BMW are shipping cars without infotainment systems, which they will retrofit when they can get hold of them.
people are offering me far more than I paid for most of my synths
I call bullshit on this. I pretty much always lose a shit-ton of money when I can can even find someone to buy any of my old hardware, all of which is in pristine, as-new condition.
WTF is the point of these threads anyway? To make people who can't afford or figure out how to use a hardware synth feel less insecure or something?
I think it's more so that lunatics like you don't give people a totally false impression of what's valuable and what's not.

Because, as someone who spent roughly 20 years working exclusively with hardware and the last 20 years working with software and hardware, if someone were to ask my advice I would tell them straight up that hardware is a waste of time, energy and money and they shouldn't bother with it at all. And if they pointed out to me that I have a lot of hardware, I'd admit that it's purely down to habit, that none of my hardware synths are really worth owning, that the decisions to buy them were impulsive and illogical and I regret each and every one of them. And every word of that is true. Hardware doesn't sound as good, it's nowhere near as reliable or portable and maintenance costs can be horrendous, even if it never breaks.
SLiC wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:27 amif money want an issue I suspect most people would prefer hardware…that’s why the majority of plug-ins look like and are essential fake hardware.
Then you suspect wrong. There is nothing about hardware, not one tiny thing, that I find preferable to software. If I look at my three favourite hardware synths - Waldorf Rocket, Uno Pro and Ultranova, they are all shit compared to even the freeware VSTi I use. The first two are monophonic or paraphonic, where GR-8 (for example) is properly polyphonic. Ultranova is monotimbral, where I can load up as many instances of GR-8 as I like, each playing a different patch. Rocket has no effects and Uno Pro only has very basic effects, where GR-8 has a good suite of really nice effects.

Of the three, Ultranova is the standout best because it's unashamedly digital, which makes it much more like a softsynth than the other two. It turns out that the qualities/features of softsynths are far more desirable than anything most hardware synths have to offer.
happiness, family, friends, health, and freedom.

which leads me to, if, you have found your path, why so angry?

you'll get ulcers because someone else buys a moog! :o
we're all mad here! im mad, youre mad, everybody is mad!!

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vurt
addled muppet weed
95452 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun May 22, 2022 5:01 am

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we're all mad here! im mad, youre mad, everybody is mad!!

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vurt
addled muppet weed
95452 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun May 22, 2022 5:02 am

Shabdahbriah wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:56 am And then... there was no electricity. And the price of batteries made them all but unattainable to the masses. And the voltage dependent masses wailed for lack of understanding as to what they should do.

... and bagpipes became the new normal.

The End.
pedal bike and dynamo
we're all mad here! im mad, youre mad, everybody is mad!!

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fisherKing
KVRAF
2798 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Post Sun May 22, 2022 6:33 am

Shabdahbriah wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:56 am And then... there was no electricity. And the price of batteries made them all but unattainable to the masses. And the voltage dependent masses wailed for lack of understanding as to what they should do.

... and bagpipes became the new normal.

The End.
bagpipes aren't the current normal?
https://upstatebrooklyn.com
one plugin short of perfection...

FotoxBr
KVRist
222 posts since 6 Jul, 2019

Post Sun May 22, 2022 7:25 am

We may have reached the end of software synths when chips are available again. Or the other way around, I guess.

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