Reference Tracks for Synth-based Instrumentals

[imrae]

When I use reference tracks I use a few different ones to help calibrate the general envelope of what a good-sounding mix can sound like. If I have more low-end kick than Daft Punk, or more snare than a commercial rock track, or more dominant vocals than a pop track... then I know it went too far! Unless that was the goal. When you only listen to your own stuff for a long time it can be easy to lose perspective.

Surely that's a simple matter of listening to other music during the normal course of your life, rather than a deliberate process to match your work to something else?

Not quite. I do think it's helpful to use tracks that are familiar with in "normal course of life", but bringing them up as A/B during a mix session specifically helps avoid that aural "tunnel vision" from time spent on your own mix, make a fair comparison on your studio equipment, and make sure your memory isn't exaggerating aspects of the reference tracks.

I was pretty clear the first time that I'm not a fan of close "matching": it's about having an objective view of where it sits.

[BONES]

Maybe that's an issue for you but it's not something I've ever had to concern myself with, possibly because I am rarely, if ever, working on just one thing at a time. And these days I pretty much never listen to anything in our genre anyway, but I can still remember what it's supposed to sound like.

I definitely like to listen to stuff I'm working on in the car, through my normal (not studio) headphones and through my BT speaker but I never listen to it next to something else. If I did, I'd be much more concerned that the songs themselves stood up, the mix probably wouldn't bother me so much.

[TheMaestro]

But he did't ask for your personal view on anything.

Which is precisely why I asked a question of him, so that I could provide useful information, or simply not bother responding any further.

And knowing your chart topping music, no one needs your advice on anything that isn't personal to you, or about the well reviewed music you "create".

I fixed that up for you with a couple of actual facts that kind of work against the premise.

You clearly knew what reference tracks are used for, and you answerd with absolutely no "useful information" at all, but your usual name-calling and belitteling.

And every genre has their fans. Music, literature, art, politics. No matter how bad it is.
So you "fixing" my post just shows how insecure and defensive you are. Despite your "facts".

[TheMaestro]

Maybe that's an issue for you but it's not something I've ever had to concern myself with, possibly because I am rarely, if ever, working on just one thing at a time. And these days I pretty much never listen to anything in our genre anyway, but I can still remember what it's supposed to sound like.

I definitely like to listen to stuff I'm working on in the car, through my normal (not studio) headphones and through my BT speaker but I never listen to it next to something else. If I did, I'd be much more concerned that the songs themselves stood up, the mix probably wouldn't bother me so much.

Every music genre is a reference. So if you're never creating anything outside your genre bubble, you've already listened to a lot of references.

[zachy9]

If you're interested, Mike Senior's book "Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio" has some good discussion of reference tracks and their utility.

No, I'm not interested because a) I have no idea who Mike Senior is, and b) I doubt he has anything useful to say. Reading the blurb on Amazon is definitely enough to put me off.

So you (a) don't know what reference tracks are for, and (b) you're not interested in learning. You're welcome to that attitude, but it's a pretty bad way to learn a craft.

Does anyone have anything to say that's relevant to the OP's question?

[BertKoor]

Does anyone have anything to say that's relevant to the OP's question?

I think I did. He asked whether it was OK for him to post a snippet, I answered: sure!

[llatham]

It's indeed tough to find reference tracks for this type of music. I think we'd need to hear at least a bit of it to give recommendations since what you've described covers a lot of genre ground.

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/o ... al_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/m ... al_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/m ... al_sharing

[llatham]

[...] if it's cool to post them in the thread.

Yeah, that would be great. Posting a raw link to soundcloud or an .mp3 hosted somewhere should present it with a mini player around.

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/o ... al_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/m ... al_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/m ... al_sharing

[llatham]

[...] if it's cool to post them in the thread.

Yeah, that would be great. Posting a raw link to soundcloud or an .mp3 hosted somewhere should present it with a mini player around.

I do agree though to some extent with Bones: what do you hope to get out of it.

I hope to find some commercial tracks that sound similar to what I'm doing so I can use them as a general reference for general qualities like tonal balance, loudness, and general mix characteristics to provide examples of good starting points and possibly inspiration to do something a little more different.

[BONES]

You clearly knew what reference tracks are used for, and you answerd with absolutely no "useful information" at all, but your usual name-calling and belitteling.

Not in this case because he's already done the music and didn't seem to know what to do with it. He might be looking for a loudness reference for mastering or maybe references to change the mixes to conform to a particular genre. But the way the original post read, it felt to me more like the time for reference tracks was well and truly over, that maybe he should have had a few things in mind before he got started. So him asking at the point he was at seemed weird, which made me think maybe I wasn't understanding exactly what he was asking for. So I asked a question.

And every genre has their fans. Music, literature, art, politics. No matter how bad it is.
So you "fixing" my post just shows how insecure and defensive you are. Despite your "facts".

I'd suggest you posting it in the first place says exactly that about you. I only "fixed" it to annoy you, you sad little nobody.

[BertKoor]

I hope to find some commercial tracks that sound similar to what I'm doing so I can use them as a general reference for general qualities like tonal balance, loudness, and general mix characteristics to provide examples of good starting points and possibly inspiration to do something a little more different.

I've listened to them. The last two tracks sounded more finished, these had some more depth in them.
Sorry, I can't help with actual reference material, but I'm sure someone else can.

Tonal balance: a bit shy on the bass side. Finally someone not preoccupied with just the lowest two octaves we can hear! But it does stand out.

Loudness: I did not have to adjust the playback volume, so me thinks it's fine. But I don't know what SoundCloud did to it. In general: you have the choice. Either you go for as loud as possible at the cost of some distortion, or you fight against the loudness war and only do a bit of gentle compression & peak limiting. My point of view is that every device has a volume knob for a reason. And for a commercial release you should better use services of a professional mastering engineer, who can work best with material that is not compressed already (unless for artistic reasons)

[BONES]

My experience with a "professional" mastering engineer has put me off for life. He did a very poor job and charged our label 1000 euros for his trouble. And he wasn't some freelance operator, he was the German in-house mastering guy for one of the major labels, who basically did it as a favour to the label. The label said my rough masters sounded better and they've let me master everything since that first album.

Back in the 80s and 90s, my solo stuff got released with basically no mastering at all. I paid a guy $400 to take my ADAT and turn it into something they could make a CD from but he didn't do anything to the sound.

[TheMaestro]

You clearly knew what reference tracks are used for, and you answerd with absolutely no "useful information" at all, but your usual name-calling and belitteling.

Not in this case because he's already done the music and didn't seem to know what to do with it. He might be looking for a loudness reference for mastering or maybe references to change the mixes to conform to a particular genre. But the way the original post read, it felt to me more like the time for reference tracks was well and truly over, that maybe he should have had a few things in mind before he got started. So him asking at the point he was at seemed weird, which made me think maybe I wasn't understanding exactly what he was asking for. So I asked a question.

And every genre has their fans. Music, literature, art, politics. No matter how bad it is.
So you "fixing" my post just shows how insecure and defensive you are. Despite your "facts".

I'd suggest you posting it in the first place says exactly that about you. I only "fixed" it to annoy you, you sad little nobody.

Just by saying "he's already done the music", and then pretend you can't change anything, let alone the mixing or mastering, just shows how dishonest you are in your replies here, just to get something "angry" and self-centered across.

And Sorry. You're not annoying me the slightest.
I know that's an act you rely on, and it's a part of your genre image.
But you're as stale and unoriginal as your music.

[TheMaestro]

And to the OP.

The loudness sounds fine, at least throug soundcloud.
Your music sounds like a blend of early game music, a tad synthwave, and minimalistic synth pop.
Maybe you can find som references among those to get you starting.
Or try to highlight what you want to stand out, whether it's the melody, bass, space, etc etc, or just overall balance.

[andymcbain]

It's indeed tough to find reference tracks for this type of music. I think we'd need to hear at least a bit of it to give recommendations since what you've described covers a lot of genre ground.

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/o ... al_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/m ... al_sharing

https://soundcloud.com/user-167507136/m ... al_sharing

There's a track off the latest Röyksopp I've been enjoying that isn't a million miles away

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_f1Msn608c

Maybe some Todd Terje?

https://youtu.be/ebjXsc0UjdQ