Omnisphere Keyscape dodgy sample.

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kenny saunders
KVRist
Topic Starter
191 posts since 16 May, 2019

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:31 am

Hi.

Anyone have Keyscape? Can you confirm if there is a clear, horrible non-musical resonance on A# (the 3rd A# below Middle C / also described as the 2nd highest A# on an 88 key controller) specifically?

This is for the LA Custom C7, most evident on the 'pure' setting.
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
4089 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:59 am

Well... the 3rd A# below middle C (near the bottom) is never also described as the 2nd highest A# (near the top) on an 88 key controller. I tried both, and didn't hear anything unusual. Also what velocity range is affected?

Oh, and I can't find any "pure" setting either - I went for Natural as the closest word to "pure".
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2021 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 12
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

kenny saunders
KVRist
Topic Starter
191 posts since 16 May, 2019

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:18 am

noiseboyuk wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:59 am Well... the 3rd A# below middle C (near the bottom) is never also described as the 2nd highest A# (near the top) on an 88 key controller. I tried both, and didn't hear anything unusual. Also what velocity range is affected?

Oh, and I can't find any "pure" setting either - I went for Natural as the closest word to "pure".
any C7 patch, 'classical' is the one I am using

https://voca.ro/1czgFxTtkJjI

I've uploaded the sound its as plain as day.
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
4089 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:58 am

Thanks for uploading, but I can't hear anything unusual at all. Which note sounds odd to you of the three?

A long shot here... I was chasing a rogue buzzy piano note forever one day before I discovered it was vibrating the power connector on the back of the loudspeaker....
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2021 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 12
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

User avatar
beely
KVRAF
2183 posts since 6 Jul, 2013

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:29 am

kenny saunders wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:31 amCan you confirm if there is a clear, horrible non-musical resonance on A#
Yes, I can confirm that on the audio recording you provided, there is no clear, horrible non-musical resonance on that note.

kenny saunders
KVRist
Topic Starter
191 posts since 16 May, 2019

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:06 pm

How do you all think that's normal lol, wft!

Maybe you are misunderstanding what i am describing as resonance but its a jarring sound that should not be there.

Here is an example with NI' Grandeur first then the Omni C7. If you can't hear anything wrong with the 2nd sound then I can only assume you're trolling! I dunno try listening with headphones.

https://voca.ro/1imUtvImdeUb
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
4089 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:45 pm

I think you're mistaking the sound of one piano with a different piano.

Those are overtones, but they're not unique to that A# - the whole lower register has them:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/etzjmwdvnert2 ... e.mp3?dl=0

That's what that C7 that they sampled sounds like.

You suggest it's just a dodgy sample on one note - that's clearly not the case. (At least we finally have cleared up which note it is, so we have made some progress).
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2021 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 12
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

BenfordLaw
KVRist
199 posts since 12 Nov, 2020

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:25 pm

Nice to see that the first person to reply was noiseboyuk - after all, he has a program that searches for the words 'Omnisphere' and 'Keyscape' on KVR forums so that he can defend them whenever anybody dares to criticise anything at all about them... Seriously worrying.
I can hear something odd about the lowest (final) note in the supplied sample.

kenny saunders
KVRist
Topic Starter
191 posts since 16 May, 2019

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:25 pm

noiseboyuk wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:45 pm I think you're mistaking the sound of one piano with a different piano.

Those are overtones, but they're not unique to that A# - the whole lower register has them:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/etzjmwdvnert2 ... e.mp3?dl=0

That's what that C7 that they sampled sounds like.

You suggest it's just a dodgy sample on one note - that's clearly not the case. (At least we finally have cleared up which note it is, so we have made some progress).
Its definitely worse on A# even in the example you gave although you played only short notes so doesn't show the worst of it because the one on A# it oscillates for as long as the sample itself. Also A, and C, have the same sound but it doesn't oscillate for the entire sample. Its there in the rest of the octave but is still musical. Well If every C7 sounds like that I didn't know that.
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

N 4 LIFE
KVRist
31 posts since 5 Jan, 2022

Post Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:44 pm

Just loaded Keyscape earlier today for the first time in six months of owning it. It just doesn't make it. There's some weird thumpy pitch envelope on the piano that can't be edited. There's no ADSR on the damn thing anywhere I can find, can you?
I wish I could get my money back. Spent 50 hours edited velocity curves and other parameters when I bought it and 3 hours today. I want my 53 hours back.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
4089 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:16 am

I'm a pretty rubbish piano player, but there are plenty of very skilled players who adore it.

https://youtu.be/63fvC9_kUbU

https://youtu.be/GLZfKZ8PUE4

https://youtu.be/4VlZ3OiRReM

Ya know, sounds alright to me...

I read a comment recently from a good piano player that said he can tell if he's going to get on with a virtual piano in about 15 seconds, and nothing will ever change after that point regardless of how much tweaking he does. Sounds plausible to me, everyone is different. Likely the feel of the keyboard and its specific interaction with the software plays a part too.

N 4 LIFE - I don't think you have ADSR controls in Keyscape itself, but of course you can adjust everything if hosted in Omni 2.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2021 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 12
MBP 2015 OSX 10.13.3 2.8ghz 16gb 1TB SSD

Adinoff
KVRer
18 posts since 3 Jul, 2022

Post Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:28 am

Everything seems normal to me

N 4 LIFE
KVRist
31 posts since 5 Jan, 2022

Post Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:47 pm

noyzboyuk:

Yeah, one of reasons I bought it was because of all the monster players playing it on demos and it sounded amazing. Could be a host of issues why it doesn't cut it here at my studio. I don't have Omnisphere and don't plan on buying it. Still, anything that is a VST and costs 500 dollars should have an ADSR for God's sake.

User avatar
Captain
KVRian
674 posts since 29 Nov, 2002 from Finland

Post Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:21 am

This same issue was discussed somewhere some time ago, might have been Gearsl... space. The bottom line is that yes, there is a pretty strong resonance there, and it's actually loudest in the note B2 (the note with fundamental frequency of 123.47 Hz, one semitone down from C3). It's present in all the lower octaves, but it's loudest in B2, and starts fading away when you go further away from B2.

The resonance rings at about 800 Hz (when playing B2), which falls between the notes G and G# some octaves higher, so in this sense it is "non-musical" and not part of the regular harmonic series. It has a very obvious pulsing/tremolo, and in the beginning of the note it peaks at around the same level as the fundamental, which makes it pretty audible. Quickly checking the full range of the instrument, no harmonic this far above the fundamental is ever this loud, so this is definitely a kind of anomaly.

If you have trouble hearing the resonance, transpose some neighbouring note (like C3 or G2) to the same pitch as the B2 so that you'll play different samples at the same pitch, then play them back to back. I think you need Omnisphere for this, just go to the Omnisphere interface and use the Coarse Pitch knob. Now the pitch of the note is not changing, just the harmonic content, and the offending resonance is very easy to pick up. And/or use an analyzer like I did, it's quite visible too. (I was going to capture and post some fancy images & videos, but I need some sleep, and you can all do that yourself if you wish).

Now, where does this resonance come from, is it bad, should it be there, does it interfere with playing Keyscape... It's obviously coming from the piano itself, and I'm guessing it's just something the actual piano does. I never noticed it until I saw it mentioned in the other discussion, and I have kept playing Keyscape after that and it has never really bothered me in real life use (we just released an album where I play the Keyscape piano and it topped the charts in our country and I have received no complaints about any resonances).

I personally would have probably EQ'd that frequency down a little bit for a few notes before putting them in Keyscape, but that's just me. And in a sense I kind of like the "that's what it sounds like, resonances and all" approach.

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