Bitwig VS Ableton

[Tj Shredder]

yeah id want that too, you can use pizmidipolyphony to send the notes to different vsts but its a bit of a pain having to set up macros for every control on the synth when you want them each to be the same, but i get better results by making each voice different anyway

You can use an Instrument Selector in Bitwig to round robin a synth like Legend and make it polyphonic. Also, if you create one layer, and add a bunch of macros to various parameters of that instance, then duplicate the layers, each macro knob will adjust all duplicated layers without having to set them up individually.

thanks, thats useful to know! ill try it out that way, it may also work with the midi splitter and just duplicating the layers in the same way that you said

That way you can even turn any synth into a MPE expressive monster and modulate any automatable parameter with your expressions, even those the devs didn't think about...

[perpetual3]

yeah id want that too, you can use pizmidipolyphony to send the notes to different vsts but its a bit of a pain having to set up macros for every control on the synth when you want them each to be the same, but i get better results by making each voice different anyway

You can use an Instrument Selector in Bitwig to round robin a synth like Legend and make it polyphonic. Also, if you create one layer, and add a bunch of macros to various parameters of that instance, then duplicate the layers, each macro knob will adjust all duplicated layers without having to set them up individually.

thanks, thats useful to know! ill try it out that way, it may also work with the midi splitter and just duplicating the layers in the same way that you said

That way you can even turn any synth into a MPE expressive monster and modulate any automatable parameter with your expressions, even those the devs didn't think about...

How can you turn any synth into an MPE synth?

[j wazza]

That way you can even turn any synth into a MPE expressive monster and modulate any automatable parameter with your expressions, even those the devs didn't think about...

do you mean by using pitch bend in the synth? i cant always figure out how to even set up pitch bend with some vsts in bitwig but that does sound cool

[Tj Shredder]

How can you turn any synth into an MPE synth?

You simply place lets say 6 instances of the same sound into an instrument selector and set the mode to free-robin. Set in the track inspector Midi channel all->same. Now each note you play with your expressive controller will be lead to its own instance and carry each individual expression (pitchbend, cc74, aftertouch and velocities) Some instruments do not listen to all Midi channels. In this case you need to set the Midi channel in each instance, but that is rarely necessary…
Changing the sounds is more tedious. I usually delete all instances except for one, tweak the sound in non MPE way, and after that duplicate the instance into the other slots of the selector…

[homunculus]

Used Ableton Live for over 10 years. Doesnt matter what Ableton can do better than Bitwig, Ableton's CPU optimization and use of plugins is trash. I tried Bitwig a few weeks ago on a whim and holy hell does it run sooooo much smoother with the same exact project vs Ableton. Ableton sutters, GUI gets laggy while Bitwig's does not. . I have an absolute beast of a computer and Ableton does not take advantage of it at all. Meanwhile Bitwig does. I can't believe I put up with that all these years. Shouldve made the switch sooner, only thing is that I hate Bitwig's GUI but I can live with that. A quick example, I can run 86 Diva's with a chord of 8 notes on Ableton before it begins to crack the audio, on Bitwig I get 170!! Not even close. If you are having CPU problems with Ableton I highly highly recommend making the switch.

[syntonica]

I can run 86 Diva's with a chord of 8 notes on Ableton before it begins to crack the audio, on Bitwig I get 170!! Not even close. If you are having CPU problems with Ableton I highly highly recommend making the switch.

My old computer could maybe do 4 Divas. In draft mode. Standing away from the wind while coasting downhill.

But that's good to know. I dislike Live as the GUI is all tiny and fussy. I have yet to try out the new BWS4 to see how it handles on sharp turns.

[bharris22]

I just picked up Bitwig and would love to make it my primary DAW instead of Ableton, but I do really like the M4L devices I have. The GUI for M4L, though, is relatively blurry on my Hi DPI laptop screen, and I can't figure out how to improve it. My hope is that the latest teasers for using Max devices as a VST may ultimately enable me to port some of these M4L devices to VST for use in Bitwig (assuming I purchase full Max), but I guess we'll have to see . . . . In the meantime, I'm going to try to learn Bitwig more thoroughly.

[EnGee]

I finally settled on Live 11 Standard. Not sure I want to have Suite again, although I really like the Wavetable and Operator synths, but I don't need most of the other features includes M4L.

I actually like Ableton GUI and the default theme. It is very clean and minimalistic but very elegant. The same (more or less) about S1 and Logic. I had Bitwig 16-Track but I sold it and upgraded my Live lite to Standard instead of upgrading to Bitwig Studio. There are many reasons, but most important of all the latest mess they did with how updates been handles ... etc. They stepped back, but I already lost my enthusiasm for Bitwig and don't care anymore about it.

I noticed that Ableton Live performance is better on my mini mac m1 than my Ryzen 5800x PC! Not only that but old synths like FM8, Absynth and Massive looks much better and almost without any artificial graphics on my scaled 150% 27" 4k monitor! So I tend to use it more on my Mini Mac than my PC.

I do have some hungry CPU synths but I just need a bunch of them (at most a dozen!). That Ableton Live can handle easily below 50% CPU with 64 buffer @48kHz. For my usage, Ableton Live is excellent

[jonljacobi]

Live GUI is tiny and fussy??? How many DAWs have you tried? You know it scales?

[syntonica]

Live GUI is tiny and fussy??? How many DAWs have you tried? You know it scales?

I'm assuming this question is to me since I'm the only one that says "fussy". I've basically tried every DAW that runs on a Mac. Except Cubase--I could never get it to stay open longer than 2 seconds.

I work on a laptop screen, so scaling isn't much of an option. Live's GUI just looks like the natural progression of the MAX GUI, except it's gone mono and proliferated and taken up every pixel of real estate. Needless to say, I've never been fond of the aesthetic.

But don't worry, I similar complaints about most all the other DAWs. Except Logic/Garageband. Those GUIs are anything but compact. I'm not sure if Apple could possibly make them uglier, except maybe animated instrument icons.

[EnGee]

You can scale both DAWs without scaling the OS. In case of Ableton, it scales really very well because it has the space to do it better than any other DAW.

I use scaled OS (both Mac and Windows) at 150% on my 27" 4k monitor. Live looks great. Sometimes I like more scaled GUI, so I just do it about 110% inside Live.

[jonljacobi]

Live GUI is tiny and fussy??? How many DAWs have you tried? You know it scales?

I'm assuming this question is to me since I'm the only one that says "fussy". I've basically tried every DAW that runs on a Mac. Except Cubase--I could never get it to stay open longer than 2 seconds.

I work on a laptop screen, so scaling isn't much of an option. Live's GUI just looks like the natural progression of the MAX GUI, except it's gone mono and proliferated and taken up every pixel of real estate. Needless to say, I've never been fond of the aesthetic.

But don't worry, I similar complaints about most all the other DAWs. Except Logic/Garageband. Those GUIs are anything but compact. I'm not sure if Apple could possibly make them uglier, except maybe animated instrument icons.

Yes, I just think it's one of the least tiny and fussy. Having just tried out Cubase 12, S1 v6, and Pro Tools Intro, I find they have far more tiny icons and text. But I run at 130% with Live (5K iMac), sometimes 140%. Not that there isn't the occasional small icon, but I have to be far more precise with the mouse with the others.

That it's minimalist (for a DAW) and can be made large is half the reason I use it. As to the look... I may not love it, but I'm used to it and it's refreshingly uncluttered.

[machinesworking]

In terms of GUI IMO Bitwig and Logic are the most clear, direct interfaces. Maybe not the prettiest, (I can't stand the blandness of Logics GUI), but the least variation in fonts, and tiny parts mixed with large parts etc.

As far as liking to look at them, Studio One and DP all the way, but in terms of pure UX, Bitwig is hard to beat, even if it looks a little like a toy.

We just had this thread, but here goes, on a theoretical possibility etc. level I should be using Live, but I'm stuck in Bitwig. A recent collaboration is one reason, another is besides being slightly more complex of an interface than Live, I find it's just more entertaining to use all around, the modulation system especially is just super quick. The project is starting off with only built in Bitwig devices for ease of upload to Dropbox etc. and getting the builkt in devices to have some random analog feel is pretty easy with modulation etc.

[simmo75]

Bitwigs external hardware synth tool, the ability to turn on midi clock, on a per track basis. This is the way!

[Dionysos]

Bitwig is hard to beat, even if it looks a little like a toy.

It's a shame that this is seen by many as a negative. Something looking like a toy, especially if it doesn't come at the expense of information density and clarity (which I think is not the case for Bitwig), should mean it's approachable, easy to use, and inviting play and exploration. I'd argue that a UI that doesn't do those things is not a good UI for a tool that's used for creative expression.