The official CS-80 documentation that was shared earlier in the thread. It has explicit times listed, by yamaha, by the CS-80 designers. That's clearly what Yamaha intended each synth be calibrated to. Is that so hard to grasp as the proper 'target' for an emulation? I'm also not convinced the variance between envelopes times is so drastic between CS-80 units, but of course I can't be sure. It's certainly not as drastic as the difference between Arturia's new timings and 'classic' timings, which differ by 10+ seconds, for real. Given that they promoted both as 'acccurate', I wonder which one is actually 'accurate'? They can't both be, with a spread like that!zzz00m wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:29 pmWell considering that the original hardware CS-80's don't even match each other, which one do you propose that Arturia or anyone else match?mholloway wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:59 pm Arturia go on and on about the accuracy of their modeling, yet they add TWO modes modes to the CS-80 V4 envelope timing and can't bother to make EITHER of them match the original. They're not even close. What the hell are they thinking? The first thing I noticed after getting their V4 was how weird and difficult the envelopes felt. The attack slider is basically worthless for swelling pads until you switch it over to 'classic' mode.
CS-80 vst emulation on budget recommendation
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- KVRAF
- 2303 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
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- KVRAF
- 3735 posts since 17 Sep, 2016
Who actually cares? IMO close enough is good enough! Use your ears and go make some music!mholloway wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:15 am The official CS-80 documentation that was shared earlier in the thread. It has explicit times listed, by yamaha, by the CS-80 designers. That's clearly what Yamaha intended each synth be calibrated to. Is that so hard to grasp as the proper 'target' for an emulation? I'm also not convinced the variance between envelopes times is so drastic between CS-80 units, but of course I can't be sure. It's certainly not as drastic as the difference between Arturia's new timings and 'classic' timings, which differ by 10+ seconds, for real. Given that they promoted both as 'acccurate', I wonder which one is actually 'accurate'? They can't both be, with a spread like that!
Those hardware dinosaurs have very complex analog circuitry that is so old now (over 45 years) that you really need to throw out the specs book, and talk to some folks who maintain and restore them!
Windows 10 and too many plugins
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- KVRist
- 295 posts since 6 Nov, 2010
The Long mode in Arturia's version has min envelope times of 2ms and max ADSR times of 10, 25, 10, 40 seconds. Aside from the 1ms difference on the attack min time, you can match (limit yourself to) the hardware specs if you want.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us. - Emerson
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- KVRAF
- 2303 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
Oh you're right, nobody in the history of KVR or Gearspace etc has ever cared about whether an analog synth emulation accurately emulates the hardware it's based onzzz00m wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:37 amWho actually cares? IMO close enough is good enough! Use your ears and go make some music!mholloway wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:15 am The official CS-80 documentation that was shared earlier in the thread. It has explicit times listed, by yamaha, by the CS-80 designers. That's clearly what Yamaha intended each synth be calibrated to. Is that so hard to grasp as the proper 'target' for an emulation? I'm also not convinced the variance between envelopes times is so drastic between CS-80 units, but of course I can't be sure. It's certainly not as drastic as the difference between Arturia's new timings and 'classic' timings, which differ by 10+ seconds, for real. Given that they promoted both as 'acccurate', I wonder which one is actually 'accurate'? They can't both be, with a spread like that!
- KVRian
- 576 posts since 30 Jan, 2021
By the time everyone on KVR says, "I don't care if it's a close emulation of the original. It sounds fine as it is, so I'm making music with it," I would've been worm food for 100 years.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
If no one cared about how close an emulation behaves or sounds to the original, there would be absolutely zero point for any emulation, unless you care about how close the GUI looks to the original.
ESPECIALLY if someone specifically asks for an emulation.
ESPECIALLY if someone specifically asks for an emulation.
- KVRAF
- 3060 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany
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- KVRist
- 355 posts since 24 Jul, 2006
I think it's more likely they were thinking of KxPolyM-CSE which has some elements of the CS-70M on top of it's Synthi/EMS inspired modular-nessDocAtlas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:28 amIt's probably on this site: https://kbrownsynthplugins.weebly.com/. There are several plugins that start with CS. I don't know what they sound like, but they're both free. Some of them are only 32 bit though, so they may not be what you want.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/kx-pol ... y-kx77free
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- KVRian
- 624 posts since 12 Sep, 2007
How about the brand spanking new Cherry Audio GX80.
https://cherryaudio.com/
$59
Lots of folks seem to enjoy it.
https://cherryaudio.com/
$59
Lots of folks seem to enjoy it.
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- KVRist
- 423 posts since 3 May, 2004 from UK
- KVRAF
- 3060 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany
Frequency response compare:
One saw wave C3 with channel and global LPF und Brill. sliders full open.
In the GX-80 there is some max. limit for the resonance peak at 12 khz.
ME-80 saw is completely flat.
(SPAN slope setting: 6 dB)
One saw wave C3 with channel and global LPF und Brill. sliders full open.
In the GX-80 there is some max. limit for the resonance peak at 12 khz.
ME-80 saw is completely flat.
(SPAN slope setting: 6 dB)
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- KVRAF
- 6980 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Atlantis Island
That big you are?Boy Wonder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:57 am By the time everyone on KVR says, "I don't care if it's a close emulation of the original. It sounds fine as it is, so I'm making music with it," I would've been worm food for 100 years.
https://sonograyn.bandcamp.com/music Experimental Ambient
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
https://martinjuenke.bandcamp.com/music Alternative Instrumental
- KVRAF
- 21196 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
I think most people care to a point. If it's close (subjective term) that's good enough. I think the minority of the population is to the point where every envelope has to be 100% spot on and the osc waveform has to look identical to the hardware unit, not that that's even possible in some cases where the hardware is notorious for fluctuations in its sound from one instrument to another and even from one day to another.
I'm not that anal. But yes, I expect the "Gary Numan Cars Patch" on my Xils PolyM to sound close enough to where I'm saying to myself, "Yep, that's the sound."
The only emulations I've ever heard that were 100% identical were the Korg synths in the legacy collection such as the Wavestation, because it's literally the same software. I owned a Wavestation and can honestly say there is no difference in the sound.
But that's where it ends. Every other emulation I've ever purchased is not 100% identical to the hardware.
I don't care.
YMMV