Blew the dust off.... Z3TA+ 2

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zzz00m
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3579 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:44 pm

Teksonik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:39 am I think it would be worth updating to Z3ta+3 but it would need a modern GUI and some tweaks to the sound.

I don't know who ended up with the rights to Rene's old plugins so there may be legal reasons why Z3TA is destined to fade into history.
I have most of the legacy CW instrument plugins still installed from years ago, and they all still run fine in Windows 10. Cannot vouch for their installers or Command Center though, as I haven't touched them in years.

As far as updates to any CW plugins are concerned, it would be nice, but BandLab hasn't shown any interest in re-releasing them since they acquired the Cakewalk digital properties from Gibson in 2018. https://www.musicradar.com/news/bandlab ... rom-gibson

So the plugins are getting even older and farther away from the knowledge of any recent development teams that were originally involved. BandLab hired a few of the original DAW developers and now they continue to this day supporting Cakewalk by BandLab.

As far as Rene and z3ta+ are concerned, Cakewalk bought them (rgc:audio), and hired Rene to develop Cakewalk branded synths. Which is how Dimension and Rapture got started. But Rene departed the company prior to Z3TA+2 and Rapture Pro. In fact in the "about" screen for Z3TA+2, there is a credit for the CW dev team at the time, with a nod to Rene for the architecture and development of the original z3ta+.

I imagine that the copyrights and source code are the property of BandLab now and likely will never see the light of day again. Plugins don't appear to be part of their existing business model.

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Last edited by zzz00m on Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 10 and too many plugins

chk071
KVRAF
33355 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:50 pm

Waveshaping is a nice concept, I also liked it in Helix. Pair that with a revamp of the synth engine, and Bandlab/Cakewalk would surely have a winner. Although I'm not sure how much of a winner, as soft synths surely have never been very lucrative for them.

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Synthman2000
KVRian
Topic Starter
746 posts since 27 Apr, 2016

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:04 pm

I was quite happy with using the Command Centre, it was very fast, much faster than I thought. Either way it is installed now. I am doubtful Z3TA+2 does match modern synths in terms of sonic quality, it does not.. but that is precisely what I want right now for the track I am making. It's a promising start. I am sound designing the entire production to sound like the past not just the synthesis. So these synths (arguably not actually very good by todays standards) are 1 of the many production factors, and quite a big one.

zzz00m
KVRAF
3579 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:09 pm

chk071 wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:50 pm Waveshaping is a nice concept, I also liked it in Helix. Pair that with a revamp of the synth engine, and Bandlab/Cakewalk would surely have a winner. Although I'm not sure how much of a winner, as soft synths surely have never been very lucrative for them.
Surge XT (free) is an interesting synth to compare with z3ta+. It has some oscillator wave morphing and wave shaping features. The original Surge was released as a commercial soft synth back in the early soft synth days around 2006, but is actively developed and supported by the Surge Synth team since it was open-sourced by the original developer. https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/
  • 3 oscillators per scene, with 12 versatile oscillator algorithms: Classic, Modern, Wavetable, Window, Sine, FM2, FM3, String, Twist, Alias, S&H Noise and Audio Input.

    Classic oscillator is a morphable pulse/saw/dual saw oscillator with a sub-oscillator and hard sync.

    Modern oscillator is a mixable saw/pulse/triangle oscillator with an optional sub-oscillator mode for triangle (which can also change to sine or square) and hard sync.

    FM2/FM3 oscillators consist of a carrier and 2 or 3 modulators and various options.

    String oscillator uses two filtered waveguides to emulate plucked or bowed string sounds.

    Twist oscillator is based on a very famous Eurorack macro oscillator, and it offers a myriad of synthesis options in a very simple and quick way.

    Most algorithms (except FM2, FM3, Twist and Audio Input) offer up to 16-voice unison at the oscillator level.

    Oscillator FM in 3 different configurations and ring modulation between oscillators 1-2 and 2-3.

    Most oscillator algorithms (except FM2, FM3, Sine and Alias) are strictly band-limited, yet still cover the entire audible spectrum, delivering a clear, punchy and clean sound.
Windows 10 and too many plugins

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digitalboytn
KVRAF
2632 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:28 pm

I'm a fan of Rene's work and I had all if his synths and then the Cakewalk versions,but as a few people have said,they haven't been updated for some time and while they were well designed, they don't cut it when compared to more recent offerings ..

I mainly used Z3TA+2 and Rapture Pro,but they were replaced by ANA 2 and SynthMaster 2....

Life moves on 🌞
No auto tune...

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Teksonik
KVRAF
17650 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:39 pm

zzz00m wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:44 pm
Teksonik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:39 am I don't know who ended up with the rights to Rene's old plugins so there may be legal reasons why Z3TA is destined to fade into history.
I have most of the legacy CW instrument plugins still installed from years ago, and they all still run fine in Windows 10. Cannot vouch for their installers or Command Center though, as I haven't touched them in years.
Oh yes they still work today and may for many years to come on Windows. What I meant with "fade into history" is that it's not likely anyone will ever take on the project to update or upgrade Z3TA and I imagine the same is true for Rapture and Dimension etc. Again no one knows but the parties involved what legal issues there might be involved in developing them again. That may explain why Bandlab hasn't so far.

I was a beta tester for Cakewalk somewhere around the Sonar X2 or 3 days and I did test Z3TA but I seem to remember there were issues with the developers not responding to bug reports or development just suddenly stopped but my memory may fail me. Like I said the Midi File import bug is still there and has been for years. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
17650 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:44 pm

Synthman2000 wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:04 pm I am doubtful Z3TA+2 does match modern synths in terms of sonic quality, it does not.. but that is precisely what I want right now for the track I am making. It's a promising start. I am sound designing the entire production to sound like the past not just the synthesis. So these synths (arguably not actually very good by todays standards) are 1 of the many production factors, and quite a big one.
I wondered how long it would be before "retro VSTi sound" would be a thing. I guess 25+ years is enough for something to become retro or vintage. :)

I think Z3ta+2 certainly fits that bill. Sounds good but not modern. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Boy Wonder
KVRian
525 posts since 30 Jan, 2021

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:11 pm

"Retro VSTi sound" hmm? Well, let's see. One of the first VSTi's I used was SimSynth (which I fondly called Simmy). This was back in 1999? That's 23 years ago. By Teksonik's estimate, there should be a new SimSynth in 2024? Kewl.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.

Rabid
KVRian
1221 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Kentucky

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:21 pm

I wonder what Rene is up to now?
All I need to be happy is one more VSTi.

zzz00m
KVRAF
3579 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:26 pm

Teksonik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:39 pm
Oh yes they still work today and may for many years to come on Windows. What I meant with "fade into history" is that it's not likely anyone will ever take on the project to update or upgrade Z3TA and I imagine the same is true for Rapture and Dimension etc. Again no one knows but the parties involved what legal issues there might be involved in developing them again. That may explain why Bandlab hasn't so far.
I discussed that angle in my post...

"As far as Rene and z3ta+ are concerned, Cakewalk bought them (rgc:audio), and hired Rene to develop Cakewalk branded synths. Which is how Dimension and Rapture got started. But Rene departed the company prior to Z3TA+2 and Rapture Pro. In fact in the "about" screen for Z3TA+2, there is a credit for the CW dev team at the time, with a nod to Rene for the architecture and development of the original z3ta+.

I imagine that the copyrights and source code are the property of BandLab now and likely will never see the light of day again. Plugins don't appear to be part of their existing business model."
Windows 10 and too many plugins

chk071
KVRAF
33355 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:27 pm

Rabid wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:21 pm I wonder what Rene is up to now?
Synths. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvS6mL7EvP0

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mumpcake
KVRAF
2241 posts since 27 Aug, 2004

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:28 pm

Funny, I was just going through an unfinished project (ok just a cool 8 bar segment) and was struck by how cool this part sounded. This was something I had done in OG Rapture.
Even if the piano player can't play, keep the party going.
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Robmobius
KVRAF
3800 posts since 10 Sep, 2010 from A shit hole (Ireland).

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:55 pm

Teksonik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:59 am I'm just impressed by how even after all these years we can still download and authorize our CW products. Respect for CW for still taking care of their old customers. :tu:
Yeah, that's pretty cool support. :tu:
It's just a silvery dongle... :lol:

zzz00m
KVRAF
3579 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:15 pm

Teksonik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:59 am I'm just impressed by how even after all these years we can still download and authorize our CW products. Respect for CW for still taking care of their old customers. :tu:
Well actually respect is due to the CEO of BandLab, Kuok Meng Ru, which is the owner of all of the Cakewalk digital intellectual property. Cakewalk is no longer operating as a company since Gibson sold to BandLab in 2018. And yes, they are taking care of old Cakewalk customers out of their generosity! :)

https://www.billboard.com/pro/bandlab-c ... interview/
"Kuok Meng Ru says BandLab's goal is to empower artists and democratize music. One artist has even scored a Billboard Hot 100 hit with the platform."
Windows 10 and too many plugins

Examigan
KVRAF
7025 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:52 pm

GaryG wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:20 pm For the record, Z3ta+ and DImension Pro both install, authorise (with serials) and run fine on Windows 11. GUIs getting small but usable.

I'm not a big user of traditional sounds but DimensionPro still cuts it when I want a simple organ or rhodes or lofi strings (<3 Garritan Pocket Orchestra) etc.
I just tried installing Dimension Pro. It took me a while to get it to install correctly, but I'm all set now. :) I forgot that you may need to Run as Admin to get the authorization to work, and it turned out that is exactly what worked for me.

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