Blew the dust off.... Z3TA+ 2

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_leras
KVRAF
1849 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:57 pm

Robmobius wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:43 am Z3TA was great back in the day.
And still is?

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Synthman2000
KVRian
Topic Starter
751 posts since 27 Apr, 2016

Post Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:44 pm

Boy Wonder wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:11 pm "Retro VSTi sound" hmm? Well, let's see. One of the first VSTi's I used was SimSynth (which I fondly called Simmy). This was back in 1999? That's 23 years ago. By Teksonik's estimate, there should be a new SimSynth in 2024? Kewl.
I think as soon as a technology sounds sufficiently different in character than modern offerings (Serum Rapid Avenger Vital etc) that case will arise. I am working on a track where I am sound designing the entire signal path for the early 2000's and it is sounding VERY of that time already. It is great fun for a sound head.

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GaryG
KVRAF
7398 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK

Post Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:41 am

Examigan wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:52 pm
GaryG wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:20 pm For the record, Z3ta+ and DImension Pro both install, authorise (with serials) and run fine on Windows 11. GUIs getting small but usable.

I'm not a big user of traditional sounds but DimensionPro still cuts it when I want a simple organ or rhodes or lofi strings (<3 Garritan Pocket Orchestra) etc.
I just tried installing Dimension Pro. It took me a while to get it to install correctly, but I'm all set now. :) I forgot that you may need to Run as Admin to get the authorization to work, and it turned out that is exactly what worked for me.
Cool. I didn't think to mention that as I always run Reaper as admin when I install anything, I've come across a few plugs that won't except serials etc otherwise (Linplug Alpha for instance).

MrJubbly
KVRist
118 posts since 30 May, 2019

Post Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:25 am

As this is a discontinued plugin, Is there any way for somebody who doesn't already own it to use this legitimately?

i.e. Is is possible to purchase a licence from someone who already owned one before it was discontinued? Or is that now impossible?

Also, how would previous licence owners authorise this plugin on any new device they own. Or is that also, now impossible?

I understand that Cakewalk had bought out Z3TA + 2's developer, before they too were bought out by Bandstand, I believe? For inclusion within the Cakewalk DAW ... which apparently, is also now free, but semi-discontinued (or just no further development / support?) But apparently, you can no longer purchase the version of the DAW that bundled Z3TA+ 2 with it.

All these buy-outs and discontinuing of products are difficult to follow and confusing!

Any help breaking down the actual situation regarding this synth, and any possibility of owning/useage thereof, would be much appreciated. :)

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Teksonik
KVRAF
17650 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:49 am

zzz00m wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:26 pm I imagine that the copyrights and source code are the property of BandLab now and likely will never see the light of day again. Plugins don't appear to be part of their existing business model."
The key point there is "you imagine" and like I said no one but the parties involved know who owns what IP when it come to Rene's plugins. Did he retain the rights and that's why Bandlab hasn't spent any time on them or are they just not interested or? We simply don't know so it's all just speculation.
zzz00m wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:15 pm
Teksonik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:59 am I'm just impressed by how even after all these years we can still download and authorize our CW products. Respect for CW for still taking care of their old customers. :tu:
Well actually respect is due to the CEO of BandLab, Kuok Meng Ru, which is the owner of all of the Cakewalk digital intellectual property. Cakewalk is no longer operating as a company since Gibson sold to BandLab in 2018. And yes, they are taking care of old Cakewalk customers out of their generosity! :)
Well actually Cakewalk set up the system before they were acquired by Bandlab. CW could have just gone out of business and left us all hanging but they didn't. That's where respect is due.

Yes it's nice that Bandlab has continued support of Sonar now known as Cakewalk by Bandlab but that's a different subject than Z3TA+ and it's future or lack thereof.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
17650 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:57 am

MrJubbly wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:25 am Also, how would previous licence owners authorise this plugin on any new device they own. Or is that also, now impossible?
Not impossible at all. I just installed Z3TA on this system for the first time. As for buying a copy from someone, I suppose if they gave you their CW account information it might work.

But because it's abandoned I don't really know how wise a move it would be to try and buy it second hand now.

If someone had old projects that need it then maybe it would make sense but there are so many other alternatives out there now it would probably be more prudent to focus on plugins that are not abandoned.

The CW plugins still work today and may well work for years to come but then again they may not as who knows what the future holds. :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

zzz00m
KVRAF
3608 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:23 pm

Teksonik wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:49 am Well actually Cakewalk set up the system before they were acquired by Bandlab. CW could have just gone out of business and left us all hanging but they didn't. That's where respect is due.
But Cakewalk the company DID go completely out of business in 2017. The company was shut down by Gibson, and the intellectual property owned by Cakewalk was sold to BandLab in 2018. Cakewalk is no longer a company or operating as a business.

It is BandLab that is extending the support to former Cakewalk customers.

FYI: As a former buyer of the Sonar Platinum "Lifetime" license that was offered prior to the shutdown, I was paying close attention to the events at the time. Meng, the BandLab CEO, made a great effort to communicate to the CW community via the CW forums during the early days of the Cakewalk acquisition. The details are all available at the legacy CW forum archives.
Windows 10 and too many plugins

zzz00m
KVRAF
3608 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:51 pm

MrJubbly wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:25 am As this is a discontinued plugin, Is there any way for somebody who doesn't already own it to use this legitimately?

i.e. Is is possible to purchase a licence from someone who already owned one before it was discontinued? Or is that now impossible?

Also, how would previous licence owners authorise this plugin on any new device they own. Or is that also, now impossible?

I understand that Cakewalk had bought out Z3TA + 2's developer, before they too were bought out by Bandstand, I believe? For inclusion within the Cakewalk DAW ... which apparently, is also now free, but semi-discontinued (or just no further development / support?) But apparently, you can no longer purchase the version of the DAW that bundled Z3TA+ 2 with it.

All these buy-outs and discontinuing of products are difficult to follow and confusing!

Any help breaking down the actual situation regarding this synth, and any possibility of owning/useage thereof, would be much appreciated. :)
The legacy Cakewalk plugins are discontinued, as in no longer sold. If you had a license prior to the Cakewalk shutdown you can continue to use the products. BandLab is extending support to the former Cakewalk users for re-activations, but it is no longer possible to create a legacy Cakewalk account to register a Cakewalk product. In addition, Cakewalk licenses were always not for resale, so anyone trying to sell a CW license is not able to legally transfer it. And even if there was, there is no way to create a new CW account.
Windows 10 and too many plugins

MrJubbly
KVRist
118 posts since 30 May, 2019

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:23 am

zzz00m wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:51 pm The legacy Cakewalk plugins are discontinued, as in no longer sold. If you had a license prior to the Cakewalk shutdown you can continue to use the products. BandLab is extending support to the former Cakewalk users for re-activations, but it is no longer possible to create a legacy Cakewalk account to register a Cakewalk product. In addition, Cakewalk licenses were always not for resale, so anyone trying to sell a CW license is not able to legally transfer it. And even if there was, there is no way to create a new CW account.
Ahh, okay. Thanks for clarifying the issue.

I wonder, if the companies who acquired the plugin and DAW rights, aren't intending on developing or supporting them in the future. Wouldn't the decent thing be to release one final DRM-free version thereof. Which requires no current (or future) product activation? Or allow them to be released and supported by the audio development open source community?

I guess that wouldn't financially benefit the company which owns the rights. But seemingly, neither does just leaving these products in a sort of abandonware limbo, seem to benefit them in that regard either?

chk071
KVRAF
33354 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:30 am

MrJubbly wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:23 am
zzz00m wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:51 pm The legacy Cakewalk plugins are discontinued, as in no longer sold. If you had a license prior to the Cakewalk shutdown you can continue to use the products. BandLab is extending support to the former Cakewalk users for re-activations, but it is no longer possible to create a legacy Cakewalk account to register a Cakewalk product. In addition, Cakewalk licenses were always not for resale, so anyone trying to sell a CW license is not able to legally transfer it. And even if there was, there is no way to create a new CW account.
Ahh, okay. Thanks for clarifying the issue.

I wonder, if the companies who acquired the plugin and DAW rights, aren't intending on developing or supporting them in the future. Wouldn't the decent thing be to release one final DRM-free version thereof. Which requires no current (or future) product activation?
It requires for them to make changes to the code, so, I wouldn't really hope for that, as it's very unlikely that they will touch it again, unless they want to make a new version. But, again, I wouldn't hold my breath, because, I don't see any remote indication that that's their plan.

In the past, they turned a blind eye on account transfers (and even said to some users that it's OK for transfer the account), so, that would be your best option if you are looking to get these plugins. If someone is willing to part with his account and personal data in it.

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Synthman2000
KVRian
Topic Starter
751 posts since 27 Apr, 2016

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:02 am

Synthing out this morning, perfect day for it... cold, grey, wet and windy, in my hideaway ! Z3TA+ 2 being a bit of a struggle to work with.. I am managing to even emulate the PC crashes of the early 2000's, rather too much authenticity there. :lol: It is making it a bit difficult to work with. Closing the GUI in Cubase crashes the system so for now escape button seems to be saving the day.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
17650 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:35 am

zzz00m wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:23 pm
Teksonik wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:49 am Well actually Cakewalk set up the system before they were acquired by Bandlab. CW could have just gone out of business and left us all hanging but they didn't. That's where respect is due.
But Cakewalk the company DID go completely out of business in 2017. The company was shut down by Gibson, and the intellectual property owned by Cakewalk was sold to BandLab in 2018. Cakewalk is no longer a company or operating as a business..
You're either misreading what I'm writing or insisting on pointing out the painfully obvious.
Of course Cakewalk "DID go completely out of business in 2017" in November to be precise and was not acquired by Bandlab until Feb 2018. Like I said CW could have left us all hanging after they went out of business but they didn't. We were still able to download our content before Bandlab took over.
zzz00m wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:23 pmIt is BandLab that is extending the support to former Cakewalk customers..
Of course it is Bandlab who is now supporting former CW customers and no one has said anything different. But it was the people who worked for CW who first supported us by maintaining the downloads immediately after the company ceased operations.
zzz00m wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:23 pmFYI: As a former buyer of the Sonar Platinum "Lifetime" license that was offered prior to the shutdown, I was paying close attention to the events at the time. Meng, the BandLab CEO, made a great effort to communicate to the CW community via the CW forums during the early days of the Cakewalk acquisition. The details are all available at the legacy CW forum archives.
FYI if you were "paying close attention to the events" I wouldn't have to explain these things to you and again I was a beta tester for CW.

So let's say it this way....Thanks to the former CW for taking care of us until BL took over and thanks to BL for continuing to provide the CW downloads and develop the former Sonar DAW.

Does that satisfy you? Gratitude for everyone involved.

At any rate back on the subject of this thread, I think we can all agree that there is very little chance Z3TA+ 2 will be developed any further. We'll never know why as there could be several reasons but after this amount of time I think it's safe to call it abandonware.

Oh and we just passed the 20th anniversary of Z3ta version one. Long before Rene joined CW.

https://www.kvraudio.com/news/rgc_audio ... leased_684
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

zzz00m
KVRAF
3608 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:05 am

Teksonik wrote:Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:35 am FYI if you were "paying close attention to the events" I wouldn't have to explain these things to you and again I was a beta tester for CW.
Well I'm glad that you finally understand how things went down, so I don't have to keep explaining it to you. :D

Was just attempting to clarify, sorry to beat a dead horse!
Teksonik wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:35 am But it was the people who worked for CW who first supported us by maintaining the downloads immediately after the company ceased operations.
True, Gibson would have let us down, but they allowed Noel and team to maintain operations as they sought a buyer. Afterwards it was only the fact that BandLab hired Noel and a few other former CW developers and kept the CW servers up, that prevented our loss to access of legacy content. As far as BandLab's ongoing CW support is concerned, they did not have to do that, as they only bought the CW product rights and not the company.

Nice gesture, and it's great that Meng (BandLab CEO) is a music lover and wanted to preserve Cakewalk and the community. Even if it only appears to be a personal project of his, and not his company's source of revenue. If they were going to grow the product line they would have done so long ago...
Windows 10 and too many plugins

zzz00m
KVRAF
3608 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:44 am

MrJubbly wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:23 am I guess that wouldn't financially benefit the company which owns the rights. But seemingly, neither does just leaving these products in a sort of abandonware limbo, seem to benefit them in that regard either?
I think the context of the CW software purchase by BandLab should be mentioned here. Meng, the BandLab CEO saw this as an opportunity to have a desktop DAW program for his existing online BandLab members to have as a step up to from the online studio software. He elaborated on this in the old CW forums after the acquisition, when many CW users remained generally skeptical. He was asked about releasing the other plugins and he said they had no plans at that point to do so. He never said never, but it has been quiet for years now...

So that was his primary reason for re-releasing the CW DAW for free as "Cakewalk by BandLab".

I don't think Meng ever intended to go into developing commercial software or plugins beyond making Cakewalk a better DAW. The BandLab global social music creation platform has 50 million users and is completely free to use. https://www.bandlab.com/

BandLab, which was founded in 2015, doesn’t receive royalties from music made on its platform. Instead, the company makes money on artist services (which include distribution, livestreaming and BandLab Boost) that allow acts to turn their profiles or postings into ads on the platform to better reach the 50 million registered users BandLab has. https://www.billboard.com/pro/bandlab-c ... interview/

BandLab is part of a conglomerate, that in addition to BandLab and Cakewalk, owns musical instrument brands (Harmony, Heritage, etc.) and publishing companies (MusicTech, Guitar, etc.).
https://caldecottmusic.com/
Windows 10 and too many plugins

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nix808
KVRAF
4843 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia

Post Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:27 pm

The way I see it,
I imagine Cakewalk is neater without a hodge-podge of non-contiguous differing plugin concepts for native devices

I have some content installers that probably work, I bought a cheap full license in the year prior to folding
-but I use Project5 v2, it sorta not hodge-podge, but not entirely
the plug I have most affection for is PSYN, it's tidy, but the presets are not great.
I may one day attempt a bank of presets

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