Tuning to C# Standard awesomeness.

[GreyLion]

I feel kinda like a moron for not having experimented with this over the past five decades, but I really dig this Rhett Schull vid on tuning to C# Standard.

I tuned my Peavey Tele down and am really enjoying the tonal shift and and increased ease of bending. I know that Stevie Ray, and likely many others, tuned down to Eb for bending heavy strings, and have messed with that in the past, but this feels different. And really fun. I ended up tuning to D standard with eights, because the low E was getting flubby, and still get most of the effect.

Any thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4QgCp1TMOo

[thecontrolcentre]

Gonna have to try it out on my Telecaster

[jordand2112]

This is EASIER to bend??? I frequently hit 2-1/2 and 3 step bends trying wild Gilmour-esque stuff, but that's a surprising thing.. Of course, tighter strings would have to flex less to hit a desired note, but wouldn't the force be inversely proportionate? I just can't see them as being easier to bend personally.

I get the tonal change tho.

[GreyLion]

This is EASIER to bend??? I frequently hit 2-1/2 and 3 step bends trying wild Gilmour-esque stuff, but that's a surprising thing.. Of course, tighter strings would have to flex less to hit a desired note, but wouldn't the force be inversely proportionate? I just can't see them as being easier to bend personally.

I get the tonal change tho.

Oh, yeah, definitely easier, due to lower string tension. This is also why short scale guitars like Les Pauls are easier to fret and bend on than longer-scale Strats.

May be a little counter-intuitve, but if you tune down, you'll quickly see that it's true.

FWIW, the tone thing is really noticeable, at least on my Peavey Tele. It doesn't naturally sound as quacky as an old Fender Tele, but it's not too far off.

Tuned down, it sounds like a totally different guitar, and I like it.

I may try to get it back down to C#, maybe adjust the action on the low E.

Going that low means you play a G to get E, a C to get A, a D to get B. Which is a whole different arpeggiation, so rhythm playing, especially finger-picking, sounds nicely fresh on a bluze-rock progression.

[jordand2112]

I don't know what I was thinking, for some reason I was thinking relative to C but guitar is all relative to E. Jesus lol my bad, of course that makes sense.

I'll also completely agree that the tone can really improve on some Fender type guitars if you tune down some. C# is a hell of a jump though! I first tried that tuning when learning some drop-C# Van Halen stuff like Unchained.

[donkey tugger]

I routinely have everything tuned down to D (have a few 12 strings - stops the snappage of that pesky octave 3rd string.. , and easier for my steadily decreasing vocal range).

All fine with most of the guitars apart from the Bass VI which needs a bit thicker lowest string given it's short scale (for a bass tuning).

Do love the sound too. Very nice with the jangling.

[wasi]

Yeah, it's mainly that the different string tension leads to different overtone composition as it vibrates because certain overtones will resonate better with a looser string. My understanding is that lower tension causes a brighter sound, but it's partly offset by the thicker strings.

That's said, if the guitar was in C# by default, we'd probably be going nuts over tuning it to E. It's a sound and feel and it's not until the novelty wears off that you'll find out if it's something you want to stick with.

I actually went down that rabbit hole again and found this interesting tidbit:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... -overtones

An ideal string has only mass and tension. Standing waves are possible at every integer multiple of the fundamental frequency, so you get the full harmonic series. Real strings have stiffness, which introduces a (∂4y)/(∂x4) term into the equation of motion. Harmonics shift higher in frequency, no longer falling on exact integer multiples. The shorter the string, the more pronounced the stiffness effect. So I don't know about shorter strings having more overtones, but maybe they're more noticeable, because they sound discordant.

So if I'm reading that correctly, a shorter string has more dissonant overtones because the string stiffness comes into play more. A shorter string is also looser at the same pitch than a longer string, so intuitively I'd say that by loosening the string we're adding more 'stiffness effect' to a given string length and string. This means more dissonant overtones, which, to a reasonable degree, is perceived as fattening (e.g. OSC detune, ensemble effect, chorus) and after that becomes plain dissonant.

But I'm no physicist and I may even have it completely backwards. While I found a lot about overtones when varying thickness, mass and length, varying tension while leaving the rest the same doesn't seem to be the focus. If anybody is more knowlegeable I'd love to hear it. I tried to wrap my head around this paper but failed: https://arxiv.org/abs/1603.05516

On a side note, that appears to be why the low strings are wrapped: It adds mass without adding as much dissonance-inducing stiffness.

[lfm]

I experimented some on acoustics to tune down to Eb and put a capo on first fret.
- so normal tuning as played
- and you get a zero fret, kind of, no nut involved
At first I liked it, some initial thing, but matured going back to normal tuning.
The guitar braces top and back and such probably carefully chosen for the sound at normal tuning.
- but it was easier to play tuned down obviously with less tension

On my D16GT I run 011-052 hybrid set rather than 012-053. But Taylor and RecordingKing 012-053 still. I cannot get lower action than 2.4mm on Martin so harder to play. I could, but top does not vibrate properly and sound worse. It seems to need more angle to top.

I read that Leo Kottke has some guitars in C#, if not all. Maybe just 12-string, not sure. I think he has Taylor only now, on stage at least that I saw.

[donkey tugger]

During lockdown I was spending a lot of time caring for my elderly mother so I bought a cheapy acoustic to leave at her house. Afterwards didn't have much use for it as a 'standard' guitar so decided to experiment. Bought some baritone strings (16-70 if I remember rightly..) and managed to tune it down to A. Intonation is utterly fuckered if you go above the 7th fret or so..

Does sound nice for melancholic strumming though;

https://donkeyt.bandcamp.com/track/king-of-the-world

I really should buy a proper baritone acoustic (since no bugger seems to do an acoustic bass VI)

[werp]

I scored an ESP Eclipse a couple of years ago in a trade. It was fitted with a set of 12/54s and I tuned it to
C# standard from drop D on its arrival. Intonation didn't present any issues which was a surprise.
It saved me frigging around carving a new nut for it to suit my usual 10/46.
It turned out to be a bunch of fun so I've kept it there.

[thecontrolcentre]

This is also why short scale guitars like Les Pauls are easier to fret and bend on than longer-scale Strats.

I didn't know that