u-he bundle worth it?

[jamcat]

That’s not loyalty to their customers. It’s loyalty to the almighty dollar.

[PieBerger]

If you wait a while (like maybe a year?) they may have another NI sale where you can get everything MUCH cheaper.

This, also you can get good deals second hand and u-he don't treat sellers or buyers like second class citizens with ridiculous fees and or restrictive terms. There is a 15e fee if the license is less than 9 months old, which is enforced by their DRM provider (AFAIK), it's free otherwise and owners are entitled to all of the benefits as if they bought new.

Another thing to bear in mind is that u-he provide significant updates to their products, than other devs would charge for and when they do ask you to open your wallet, upgrade costs are very reasonable, 20e to upgrade Hive to v2 from v1, for example. Compare that to say Synapse Audio, who do have regular sales on Dune, but charge considerably more for upgrades, $79 to update Dune to v3 from v2. Case in point, devs get your money one way or another

[rod_zero]

Consider getting one by one, it honestly a lot to learn since all u-he synths are deep

[pdxindy]

If you wait a while (like maybe a year?) they may have another NI sale where you can get everything MUCH cheaper.

This, also you can get good deals second hand and u-he don't treat sellers or buyers like second class citizens with ridiculous fees and or restrictive terms. There is a 15e fee if the license is less than 9 months old, which is enforced by their DRM provider (AFAIK), it's free otherwise and owners are entitled to all of the benefits as if they bought new.

Another thing to bear in mind is that u-he provide significant updates to their products, than other devs would charge for and when they do ask you to open your wallet, upgrade costs are very reasonable, 20e to upgrade Hive to v2 from v1, for example. Compare that to say Synapse Audio, who do have regular sales on Dune, but charge considerably more for upgrades, $79 to update Dune to v3 from v2. Case in point, devs get your money one way or another

U-he plugins are a great value over time.

[Dirtgrain]

I remember paying upwards of $2,000 for Logic and all the eMagic plugins before Apple acquired the company and started selling the entire bundle for $200.

Some people sell plugins now and then, and it's nice to have developers who maintain consistent pricing.

[Urs]

That’s not loyalty to their customers. It’s loyalty to the almighty dollar.

Lemme use this rather offensive proclamation to jump in before the lock.

One example of "Loyality to the almighty dollar" is advertising a software worth 29$ as fictionally being worth 300$, tricking people into thinking they're getting a good deal. Another example is then charging people twice as much for updates in the following months or years. There are no perpetual bargains without a catch. Too good to be true is too good to be true, even if people wish it not to be.

We do not play any of these games and thus we make a lot less revenue than we could. We make enough revenue too sustain ok wages for about 20 employees. We ask fair prices for our work, no more no less. So much for the underlying accusation of greed in this thread.

We are grateful to our user base, and thus we offer sustainability to their investment, as much as we can. As an example, we are currently refurbishing our oldest product that is still on the market as it ever was, which will be a free update. That's a piece of software that's 19 years old. It'll be a much better and modern piece of software after the update, as we replace vast parts of old code with new stuff or alternative algorithms.

The effort of doing mostly free updates pays off for us because we continue to sell it for a fair price - fair for you, fair for us. By making the software better, we keep our software competitive and valuable over time, as we hope to expand its user base (which has gladly worked out so far). I think that's what people mean when they tie our stance to discounts to us rewarding loyalty.

In contrast, many software titles that are frequently "discounted" (one should say, "sometimes overly expensive") reach their end of life quickly, or they get kept alive by milking users with update plans or other types of hidden or open subscription. That's an example of not just "loyalty to the almighty dollar" but also "not loyalty to their customers".

(I'll add, I think when people are pissed off when companies offer stuff super cheap at some point, one underlying feeling might be that the software reaches the end of its life cycle, being devalued. It's not envy towards the people who buy cheap, it's an issue with the company that diminishes their investment.)

[jamcat]

Nice straw man. People were discussing the lack of discounts for return customers or bundles, not artificially inflated prices and frequent “sales.”

[Urs]

Nice straw man. People were discussing the lack of discounts for return customers or bundles, not artificially inflated prices and frequent “sales.”

It was you who conflated "not giving large discounts" with "corporate greed". Thank you for confirming that what's being discussed here isn't latter. Would an apology be too much to ask for?

[jamcat]

I never used either “corporate” or “greed” so I’m not sure why you’re attributing that to me in quotes.

As a developer, only you can assign a value to your products. I totally support developers in deciding how much they’re willing to license their IP for, and asserting full control over access to their IP.

Selling software is your business and livelihood. You want to make as much as you can from your work. Stating that basic fact of business is neither offensive nor anything either of us need to apologize for.

But the notion suggested here by Etienne1973 that your lack of discounts to even your loyal customers is an act of ‘loyalty’ to those customers on your part is patently ridiculous. It is actually quite the reverse. It’s because you know your loyal customers are the ones who are most willing to pay full price. So you go where the money is. I’m not faulting you for that. Your entire business model is built around establishing a loyal cult following who will pay a premium. Clearly that’s working for you and you have that core group of supporters willing to pay whatever you’re asking.

Personally, it’s way too much for me. I spend less on a whole clutch of new synths in an Arturia loyalty upgrade than a single u-he plugin costs. But I’m not your target market.

[Dombaeb]

I would compare customer experience with U-he very close to hardware company. You pay once, you pay fair price, it just works, it constantly receive free updates. Moreover, U-he plugins are evolving (you can’t get it from hardware). With U-he I feel that I almost own these plugins because there is no hidden marketing bullsh… I said almost because we can’t own software, we can rent it…but it’s close enough. So, there are no complaints, on the contrary - I want to praise U-he for the wise sales and support system.

[Urs]

Nice straw man. People were discussing the lack of discounts for return customers or bundles, not artificially inflated prices and frequent “sales.”

It was you who conflated "not giving large discounts" with "corporate greed". Thank you for confirming that what's being discussed here isn't latter. Would an apology be too much to ask for?

I'd like to add that, heavily discounted bundles are very tightly related to artificially inflated prices and frequent sales. At some point the bundle itself becomes the actual product. The individual products become a marketing argument which says "look, this bundle packs that and that much value [inflated individual product prices added] into a package costing only [all year discount price]".

As such, yes, all of these things are relevant when we discuss people's expectations, and why we won't go down certain roads.

And also, if "loyalty to the almighty dollar" doesn't translate to "corporate greed", then I don't know what it is meant to stand for. Anyhow, I don't like to be accused of any of it vaguely, between the lines or directly, and I think I have properly detailed where people were wrong with it. If all of it was meant completely differently, I don't think it has hurt to lay out my view on the matter regardlessly.

[glokraw]

Purchases like the U-he bundle, Komplete, an IK or Arturia collection etc, are not static. While at first being a sonic overload for some people, those same people's skills and creative horizons will keep expanding, and new possibilities will be discovered. Not to mention value-added product updates and 3rd-party sounds and sample collections. Great music can be made with the free products, by buying one or a few products over time, or with the collections. Those decisions are not right vs wrong, and can be made according to ones unique situation. Those situations can change quickly, but the flow of many new small victories that occur with study, work, practice, and play, are far more valuable than the gear that is used in the process.
Cheers

[midi_transmission]

I would compare customer experience with U-he very close to hardware company. You pay once, you pay fair price, it just works, it constantly receive free updates. Moreover, U-he plugins are evolving (you can’t get it from hardware). With U-he I feel that I almost own these plugins because there is no hidden marketing bullsh… I said almost because we can’t own software, we can rent it…but it’s close enough. So, there are no complaints, on the contrary - I want to praise U-he for the wise sales and support system.

Very well said. It feels like actual gear and not as a software as a service. The whole u-he philosophy adds a lot of value and is almost exactly like I imagine a perfect software environment as a customer.

Furthermore, looking at the discount in isolation is only one a part of the story. The plugins keep their value. Even when you decide to sell it at some point you don't lose too much. Many other plugins are sold for 10$ after two years.

[Etienne1973]

We do not play any of these games and thus we make a lot less revenue than we could. We make enough revenue too sustain ok wages for about 20 employees. We ask fair prices for our work, no more no less. So much for the underlying accusation of greed in this thread.

[sarcasm]
I thought you are rich and typing messages right from your yacht at Côte d'Azur.
[/sarcasm]

[Urs]

[sarcasm]
I thought you are rich and typing messages right from your yacht at Côte d'Azur.
[/sarcasm]