Massive X 1.6.1 update (September 2025)!

[PieBerger]

Eugh, middle aged men arguing on the internet, get a room

This is that room.

Damn it!

[zerocrossing]

Eugh, middle aged men arguing on the internet, get a room

This is that room.

Damn it!

I think it’s really good to have these conversations. Criticizing the faults and praising the strengths is useful to perspective customers as well as the developer, if they are listening and willing to take constructive criticism. That said, there’s something disturbing about someone who seems hell bent on repeating the same criticisms over and over. State your grievances and move on. I recently gave quite a wholloping to the Hydrasynth, but since I’ve moved to pointing out what’s great about it, and how it can be better appreciated. I might still talk about a weakness, but in the context of how it can be exploited.

Bringing up the Waldorf M is actually pretty funny, because I can write a list of flaws about it that’s at least as long as the one I can for Massive X. Maybe longer. Waldorf’s still not learned how to properly sync an LFO to a MIDI clock. The oscillators have tons of digital artifacts. (:lol:) No oscillator sync or other effects. The filter FM from the LFO is a joke. Etc. But it’s an amazingly beautiful sounding instrument that I will miss (I’ve got to sell some stuff off) when it’s gone, and there’s really no software equivalent.

[pdxindy]

He hates the fact that Massive X sounds phenomenal but it can’t be easily used in Bitwig modulation system (only by macros).

Hates is way too strong a word... it's disappointing. And yes, it's disappointing because MX sounds excellent and yet it's so behind with other stuff. It's not just not being able to directly modulate a parameter with Bitwig modulators. You also cannot directly automate a parameter. MX has gone backwards from the original Massive. Original Massive you could do direct automation and modulation. Original Massive supports PolyAT and MX doesn't. Original Massive had a good browser, MX doesn't. Original Massive had per voice MSEG's, MX doesn't. And then there's all the new stuff like MPE, CLAP, PolyMod, Note Expressions, etc.

And MX has been out for 4 years now and had minimal new development in that span.

[Biscotto]

He hates the fact that Massive X sounds phenomenal but it can’t be easily used in Bitwig modulation system (only by macros).

Hates is way too strong a word... it's disappointing. And yes, it's disappointing because MX sounds excellent and yet it's so behind with other stuff. It's not just not being able to directly modulate a parameter with Bitwig modulators. You also cannot directly automate a parameter. MX has gone backwards from the original Massive. Original Massive you could do direct automation and modulation. Original Massive supports PolyAT and MX doesn't. Original Massive had a good browser, MX doesn't. Original Massive had per voice MSEG's, MX doesn't. And then there's all the new stuff like MPE, CLAP, PolyMod, Note Expressions, etc.

And MX has been out for 4 years now and had minimal new development in that span.

Ok, you are disappointed. It is definitely not your kind of tool and for sure you made it clear since the beginning of its appearance.
I can’t stand Pigments but I do not own it and why should I go to its thread and bash it 10X ? Sure I can post my dislike but… I don’t own it…
I just noticed a certain consistency from your part to make sure your one (*) opinion becomes Massive X karma…

If you own it, why keep it. If you don’t own it why bother.

I agree with the list of shortcomings you listed but the sound is worth the hassle (as you put it) for many of us.

Hell, my Fazioli doesn’t have MIDI built in! What a waste of money…

[pdxindy]

If you own it, why keep it.

Of course I own it. I couldn't know all its flaws and shortcomings so well if I didn't.

I'm lazy to sell.

[Biscotto]

If you own it, why keep it.

Of course I own it. I couldn't know all its flaws and shortcomings so well if I didn't.

I'm lazy to sell.

You need a divorce lawyer.

[zerocrossing]

He hates the fact that Massive X sounds phenomenal but it can’t be easily used in Bitwig modulation system (only by macros).

Hates is way too strong a word... it's disappointing. And yes, it's disappointing because MX sounds excellent and yet it's so behind with other stuff. It's not just not being able to directly modulate a parameter with Bitwig modulators. You also cannot directly automate a parameter. MX has gone backwards from the original Massive. Original Massive you could do direct automation and modulation.

This is true, but it's also super easy to assign a macro and get on with your life. It's a step back but you have double the amount of macros of Massive.

Original Massive supports PolyAT and MX doesn't.

Incorrect. Unless they've taken it out over the past few years since I've had a polyphonic aftertouch enabled keyboard, it definitely doesn't do it now.

Original Massive had a good browser, MX doesn't.

The new browser is definitely a bit of a step back, but I see that they want it to work with their new controllers. It's... fine. I don't think there's a browser that would make me not use a synth.

Original Massive had per voice MSEG's, MX doesn't.

Sure it does. DAHDSHRs with shape and peak level controls. I'd love it if the performers were polyphonic, but you can do a lot with the envelopes, which are better than most. I also wish Dune 3's MSEGs were polyphonic. I sent a request in a little while ago and posted on their forum, but nothing so far. Have you done the same with Massive X? If enough people request something, they could add it.

And then there's all the new stuff like MPE, CLAP, PolyMod, Note Expressions, etc.

While you're at it, request those things too. I have. Instead of just complaining on KVR, we should form a concerted effort to pressure them into meaningful additions and changes.

I share a lot of your exact frustrations, plus some more. The UI still sucks. I can't believe scroll wheel support isn't standard in 2023. I guess the only difference is that I still find it useful and I am still fighting for change. Opal's another one. It's so close to being one of my most used instruments, yet it still misses on a bunch of levels. A lot of what we're talking about is why I keep some hardware synths around, but a lot of what we're talking about also aren't things with hardware at all. You mentioned your Waldorf M. No browser. no easy way to automate, the Edisyn editor is buggy as hell, and I could go on with a list of bugs that I bet are never resolved. You put up with all of that for the sound.

[EvilDragon]

The oscillators have tons of digital artifacts. (:lol:)

This is by design, actually, since M is basically a modern reissue of the original Waldorf Microwave I from 1989, it literally emulates the ASIC it used. And then in "Modern" mode it emulates the DSP oscillators of Microwave II. Microwave I doesn't do aliasing, it does harmonic imaging (which is exactly what was happening on vintage PPGs too), whereas Microwave II can alias (on actual MWII you could even set the amount of bandlimiting you wanted).

[zerocrossing]

The oscillators have tons of digital artifacts. (:lol:)

This is by design, actually, since M is basically a modern reissue of the original Waldorf Microwave I from 1989, it literally emulates the ASIC it used. And then in "Modern" mode it emulates the DSP oscillators of Microwave II. Microwave I doesn't do aliasing, it does harmonic imaging (which is exactly what was happening on vintage PPGs too), whereas Microwave II can alias (on actual MWII you could even set the amount of bandlimiting you wanted).

DUDE. Did you not see my lol? That was my point. You could call that a flaw, or you can exploit it for creative purposes. I just spent a week finding out exactly how the Hydrasynth sucks, mostly so I could exploit it's suckiness (and goodness) for my own evil purposes.

[CrystalWizard]

Instead of just complaining on KVR, we should form a concerted effort to pressure them into meaningful additions and changes.

This- is a good idea.
I don't own Massive X because of what i perceive as too flawed for the money (in addition to not wanting to feed the vultures any more). If they fixed and updated it i would be extremely tempted to buy it. It is amazing in it's positive points imo.

[Dalle]

What annoys me is NI keeps selling Massive X by claiming it will "grow, adapt, and evolve with regular free updates – both inspired by, and to inspire, the cultures it helps to create". They had even wilder claims for Guitar Rig 6 but removed them from the website because they couldn't deliver.

[EvilDragon]

DUDE. Did you not see my lol? That was my point.

Yeah I completely missed it.

[pdxindy]

Bringing up the Waldorf M is actually pretty funny, because I can write a list of flaws about it that’s at least as long as the one I can for Massive X. Maybe longer. Waldorf’s still not learned how to properly sync an LFO to a MIDI clock. The oscillators have tons of digital artifacts. (:lol:) No oscillator sync or other effects. The filter FM from the LFO is a joke. Etc. But it’s an amazingly beautiful sounding instrument that I will miss (I’ve got to sell some stuff off) when it’s gone, and there’s really no software equivalent.

Actually, the Waldorf M is a great example. The developer support since its release has been phenomenal! Vladi (main developer) has been in the GearSpace thread from day 1 responding to users bug reports and feature requests. There have been many bug fixed and lots of new features and refinements added. Most feature suggestions from users has been answered - whether it is possible, if he can/will add it and often some sort of timeframe.

The last couple significant issues (which you mention) have been acknowledged and will be addressed and a general timeframe given. I have never been happier with support for a hardware purchase than with the M.

Contrast that with Massive X which has been out for twice as long as the M but which has had minimal development since. From the start, NI touted MX as its new flagship and has promised evolving development and regular updates. Since MX's release, I've pointed out many issues and I don't recall a single one being addressed in the following 4 years.

[zerocrossing]

Bringing up the Waldorf M is actually pretty funny, because I can write a list of flaws about it that’s at least as long as the one I can for Massive X. Maybe longer. Waldorf’s still not learned how to properly sync an LFO to a MIDI clock. The oscillators have tons of digital artifacts. (:lol:) No oscillator sync or other effects. The filter FM from the LFO is a joke. Etc. But it’s an amazingly beautiful sounding instrument that I will miss (I’ve got to sell some stuff off) when it’s gone, and there’s really no software equivalent.

Actually, the Waldorf M is a great example. The developer support since its release has been phenomenal! Vladi (main developer) has been in the GearSpace thread from day 1 responding to users bug reports and feature requests. There have been many bug fixed and lots of new features and refinements added. Most feature suggestions from users has been answered - whether it is possible, if he can/will add it and often some sort of timeframe.

The last couple significant issues (which you mention) have been acknowledged and will be addressed and a general timeframe given. I have never been happier with support for a hardware purchase than with the M.

Contrast that with Massive X which has been out for twice as long as the M but which has had minimal development since. From the start, NI touted MX as its new flagship and has promised evolving development and regular updates. Since MX's release, I've pointed out many issues and I don't recall a single one being addressed in the following 4 years.

That’s not Waldorf. That’s Vlad, and we’re lucky to have him. The Blofeld wasn’t as lucky.

[pdxindy]

That’s not Waldorf. That’s Vlad, and we’re lucky to have him.

And Rolf is doing similar with the Quantum and Iridium. The amount of new development on the Quantum since it first shipped is ridiculously impressive!