An open letter to Native Instruments about Massive X. (Petition included!)

[fisherKing]

This doesnt need to be "submitted to NI", nor do we need their permission to have meaningful opinions about their products. If NI are not interested in the opinions of THOUSANDS of potential or existing customers on a legendary, long-lived industry forum like this one and need us to "submit" this thread to them, that is their shortcomings on display once more. Really, this is a cautionary thread for them to ignore at their own peril.

People trying to discredit an opinion poll because it hasnt been "submitted" to the brand are carrying water for the worst aspects of said brand. Either the brand respects its customers, or it doesnt. Either way the poll is meaningful.

um. what? having an opinion is fine, no one is stopping us from that. but how does this get to NI if it isn't in fact submitted to them? do we just hope they stop by, and read thru the thread? h

you're talking about THOUSANDS of users; so far, 61 people have responded on the poll.

either way, you can't be angry at a developer (or anyone) if they don't respond to something they don't even know exists...

[Saukar30]

A poll is nice... but similarly to the Waves fiasco... users posting videos get way more attention. The only way to get heard is to speak

[VitaminD]

Waves likely caved when major studios, engineers, and popular youtubers started revolting by stating they were disusing Waves products on commercial releases, wouldn't be in the market for future Waves products, or promoting them in videos to us peons.

I doubt NI knows of this thread nor cares about a small kvr thread consisting of a small sub 50 count group of folks; You haven't established a reasonable method of being heard or a grounds for being listened to.

If you really care about this then maybe you'll have better results posting this on the NI community forum and getting a few hundred folks on board?

[Lucastyle]

Well Evildragon is in the forum so I guess he is in kontakt with some people in “AI” ups sorry NI but I agree a full public outcry would be needed to make a change, but that’s almost impossible because lots of people have moved on from using native instruments as the main synths cause the is so much quality out there.

[fisherKing]

Well Evildragon is in the forum so I guess he is in kontakt with some people in “AI” ups sorry NI but I agree a full public outcry would be needed to make a change, but that’s almost impossible because lots of people have moved on from using native instruments as the main synths cause the is so much quality out there.

just saying something doesn't make it true. "lots of people have moved on from using native instruments as the main synths" - prove it. show us the statistics, the facts.

this whole thing is ridiculous. use the plugins you like, contact support if you have concerns; that will at least get your thoughts to someone 'on the inside'. a thread on kvr is less effective than a dialog with someone who actually works at NI.

[Milkman]

This doesnt need to be "submitted to NI", nor do we need their permission to have meaningful opinions about their products. If NI are not interested in the opinions of THOUSANDS of potential or existing customers on a legendary, long-lived industry forum like this one and need us to "submit" this thread to them, that is their shortcomings on display once more. Really, this is a cautionary thread for them to ignore at their own peril.

People trying to discredit an opinion poll because it hasnt been "submitted" to the brand are carrying water for the worst aspects of said brand. Either the brand respects its customers, or it doesnt. Either way the poll is meaningful.

um. what? having an opinion is fine, no one is stopping us from that. but how does this get to NI if it isn't in fact submitted to them? do we just hope they stop by, and read thru the thread? h

you're talking about THOUSANDS of users; so far, 61 people have responded on the poll.

either way, you can't be angry at a developer (or anyone) if they don't respond to something they don't even know exists...

Again, and many people dont seem to understand this because they live in late-stage economies where they view corporations in the same way children view fathers("Take muh money!!!!"), but if NI (or insert your favorite company here) ignores the LARGEST conversations that exist online and waits for people to, lol, hand-carry petitions to them, pleading with them to be a better company, this is entirely a problem of that company, regardless of how upside down the relationship seems between vendor/client. Many executives would jump at the chance to perceive free consumer confidence data. Not NI, eh?

Frankly, I dont care if NI ignore this thread. If they ignore it and then continue to ride the brand down into the toilet, in the toilet it will stay. What I'm pretty sick and tired of is people who imagine we owe corporations personal service, lol, or that it is the consumer or worker who must put forth the effort to beg the corporation to be better. Nope.

If the dev, NI in the case, doesnt know about these threads, by now, then LMAO! (They do. They mention it on their forum, and many known mods and ex mods are members of KVR....)

[digitalboytn]

What I'm pretty sick and tired of is people who imagine we owe corporations personal service, lol, or that it is the consumer or worker who must put forth the effort to beg the corporation to be better. Nope.

[fisherKing]

Again, and many people dont seem to understand this because they live in late-stage economies where they view corporations in the same way children view fathers("Take muh money!!!!"), but if NI (or insert your favorite company here) ignores the LARGEST conversations that exist online and waits for people to, lol, hand-carry petitions to them, pleading with them to be a better company, this is entirely a problem of that company, regardless of how upside down the relationship seems between vendor/client. Many executives would jump at the chance to perceive free consumer confidence data. Not NI, eh?

Frankly, I dont care if NI ignore this thread. If they ignore it and then continue to ride the brand down into the toilet, in the toilet it will stay. What I'm pretty sick and tired of is people who imagine we owe corporations personal service, lol, or that it is the consumer or worker who must put forth the effort to beg the corporation to be better. Nope.

If the dev, NI in the case, doesnt know about these threads, by now, then LMAO! (They do. They mention it on their forum, and many known mods and ex mods are members of KVR....)

largest conversations? and what person in the world thinks 'we owe corporations personal service'?? that's the bizarre sentence of the day...

it's NI's right to do as they please, listen to their users where they want, ignore what they want. and it's our RIGHT to support them, or not. if you don't want an NI plugin or product, don't buy one. just don't hold your breath and imagine you're changing the world with 60 other people on an internet forum...

[Milkman]

Again, and many people dont seem to understand this because they live in late-stage economies where they view corporations in the same way children view fathers("Take muh money!!!!"), but if NI (or insert your favorite company here) ignores the LARGEST conversations that exist online and waits for people to, lol, hand-carry petitions to them, pleading with them to be a better company, this is entirely a problem of that company, regardless of how upside down the relationship seems between vendor/client. Many executives would jump at the chance to perceive free consumer confidence data. Not NI, eh?

Frankly, I dont care if NI ignore this thread. If they ignore it and then continue to ride the brand down into the toilet, in the toilet it will stay. What I'm pretty sick and tired of is people who imagine we owe corporations personal service, lol, or that it is the consumer or worker who must put forth the effort to beg the corporation to be better. Nope.

If the dev, NI in the case, doesnt know about these threads, by now, then LMAO! (They do. They mention it on their forum, and many known mods and ex mods are members of KVR....)

largest conversations? and what person in the world thinks 'we owe corporations personal service'?? that's the bizarre sentence of the day...

it's NI's right to do as they please, listen to their users where they want, ignore what they want. and it's our RIGHT to support them, or not. if you don't want an NI plugin or product, don't buy one. just don't hold your breath and imagine you're changing the world with 60 other people on an internet forum...

Ok Ill play your game, since Im in a gaming mood. HerE iS anOThEr BizZZzaRre comment for you to clutch pearls about.

Where *other than KVR* is a larger online conversation between customers of the industry, specifically about Native Instruments? Have I missed the OTHER big, big forum where these conversations occur? You mock this thread and this conversation as if it is meaningless, and as if the customer owes the corporation all the work - and the money, too. Where do you hail from, friendo? Are you a brand manager in another life? lol

I have no idea what motivates people to try to DISEMPOWER us (customers, workers) in this conversation, but I am not here for it and I've lived long enough to know how this all works. NI isnt even autonomous anymore. This is a private equity, investor driven dead-end, and it's one many of us have seen THOUSANDS of times before. This is an objectively BAD thing for musicians unless you have a financial interest... in the outcome.

[zerocrossing]

Uh… all businesses are about making money, regardless as to whether they’re a privately owned company, a publicly traded company, or owned by a private equity company. Sometimes companies are purchased for their customer base This happened to a company my wife worked for and they basically took the customers and began switching them over to their own SAS product. They had no interest at all in the software and basically junked it. Sometimes companies are gutted for their big money makers and then left to die. Neither one of these seems to be happening with Native Instruments. That leads me to believe that they’re looking to NI for its profits. They seem to be doing great in the world of Kontakt instruments. I’ve heard a lot of people say they love that Play thing. I don’t even know what it is. I do love a lot of their sample libraries. They’re maybe not the best, but for my needs they’re perfect. So that leaves stand along synths like Massive X. Obviously they put time into developing it. It’s one of the most criticized instruments out there, despite its nearly universally praised sound. I’ve got to think that hurts sales, so if enough people spend a moment to click on the poll and leave a post, it might make someone think, “hey, if we pay a developer for a quarter to work on this, we might be able to get more revenue from it, and even convince more people who are sleeping on Komplete to upgrade. If not, what have you lost?

[pdxindy]

just don't hold your breath and imagine you're changing the world with 60 other people on an internet forum...

what's it matter to you if they do?

[zerocrossing]

just don't hold your breath and imagine you're changing the world with 60 other people on an internet forum...

what's it matter to you if they do?

I think there’s an issue with fisherKing’s sense of scale. There’s a bit of difference between asking for a better browser and polyphonic aftertouch support on a plugin and “changing the world.”

[Lucastyle]

Well Evildragon is in the forum so I guess he is in kontakt with some people in “AI” ups sorry NI but I agree a full public outcry would be needed to make a change, but that’s almost impossible because lots of people have moved on from using native instruments as the main synths cause the is so much quality out there.

just saying something doesn't make it true. "lots of people have moved on from using native instruments as the main synths" - prove it. show us the statistics, the facts.

this whole thing is ridiculous. use the plugins you like, contact support if you have concerns; that will at least get your thoughts to someone 'on the inside'. a thread on kvr is less effective than a dialog with someone who actually works at NI.

Well even NI are promoting other developers on the synth front like U-he, Synapse, Arturia, etc. this is pretty much evidence, but also look at the commercial preset packs offered for massive x compared to the competition, usually creators tend to work of products that are in high demand.

[zerocrossing]

I should add another reason that a smart company would listen to us, even if we were a minority of their customer base. We love to praise our favorite tools. Look a U-He. He treats his customers well and developed interesting plugins and we can’t stop talking about him, even though Zebra has been at version 2 for almost 20 years. When you do right by your customers, they become evangelicals. I’ll go door do door telling people are the good word, if NI steps up their game.

[rrroach]

A poll is nice... but similarly to the Waves fiasco... users posting videos get way more attention. The only way to get heard is to speak

I agree with this. It also makes outreach to non-Massive X users way easier. The problems are much more intelligible when you can see them rather than having to take time to digest a post and connect the dots in your own head as a reader.

E.g. sure maybe "L1" isn't as obvious to recognize for a newbie as "LFO1" but depending on where the knob is located maybe it's not so confusing. (This was a hypothetical example-- do not take it literally)