An open letter to Native Instruments about Massive X. (Petition included!)

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I am disappointed with NI’s development of Massive X and other plugins

I own Native Instruments software that needs some love.
157
93%
I would like to own Native Instruments software but it needs some love.
12
7%
 
Total votes: 169

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abstractdolphin wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 11:28 pmI understand why from NI's perspective it makes sense to abandon it.
I don’t think it’s been abandoned. There’s a difference between what they did with Absynth and what they’re doing with Massive X. They’ve just stopped developing it. It’s not really that uncommon.
Serum has become an industry standard. Ableton's wavetable synth is pretty good. Vital is free and very flexible. Pigments pairs wavetable synths with several other engines. I think Massive X sounds better than all of those but I don't think most agree or care as much. It would take so much work to bring MX up to the same standard as its competitors they probably don't regard it as worth the effort (same with Guitar Rig). Maybe when the well runs dry on selling sample backs they'll reconsider (and I do think that will happen eventually).
Bolded for emphasis. I think you are probably right about that. I mentioned this on another group and someone suggested Falcon instead. Sure, Falcon is great, but if you don’t hear the difference, what can I say? As you said, though, a lot of synths sound great today, and are a lot less of a mess to use. I think I get worked up about it because I feel like it’s that genius child who could really do anything but instead hangs out and smokes a lot of pot all day. I see the solutions to every single issue that’s been brought up. I don’t know what it takes to do something like support polyphonic aftertouch, but I do design UI for software, so I know that world, and I see the solutions. A lot of them are pretty obvious.

I know it’s probably a lost cause. Zebra 3 is on the horizon, and will probably trounce everything. I’ve been critical of their oscillator controls for a long time too, and maybe we’ll see improvements there and Massive X will become just another one of the plugins that came with a bundle that I never use.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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How about starting similar thread about Roland Cloud :wink:

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zerocrossing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:51 pm I feel like it’s that genius child who could really do anything but instead hangs out and smokes a lot of pot all day. I see the solutions to every single issue that’s been brought up. I don’t know what it takes to do something like support polyphonic aftertouch, but I do design UI for software, so I know that world, and I see the solutions. A lot of them are pretty obvious.
I totally agree. It's odd to have a synth that absolutely nails all the difficult things (FM algorithms, routing, beautifully harmonic distortion and breakup across all frequencies, nice and diverse morphing) and then simple things like preset browsing or envelope dragging are so poor! Still, I'm just glad it exists. It's obviously half-finished (all that empty space in the voicing tab) but they got the right half done at least. I'm sure there will be another update of minor bug fixes and at best something like scroll wheel support, but I'd bet a lot of money nothing like importing wavetables or a new effect is ever going to happen.

And just to repeat myself, I think MX sounds better than any other synth and that it's not even close. I was ready to give it up for Pigments after spending time with all the lovely QOL stuff there (undos, comprehensive midi mapping, the additive engine, etc) but then I tried MX one last time and simply playing while sweeping through the default sin-saw table with the default filter sounded so much nicer than any other synth I tried that I decided I'm happy to live with all its idiosyncrasies. Still, I agree with what you're saying with this thread, it is a bit of a shame they probably won't ever build on the many things it did right.

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abstractdolphin wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:15 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:51 pm I feel like it’s that genius child who could really do anything but instead hangs out and smokes a lot of pot all day. I see the solutions to every single issue that’s been brought up. I don’t know what it takes to do something like support polyphonic aftertouch, but I do design UI for software, so I know that world, and I see the solutions. A lot of them are pretty obvious.
I totally agree. It's odd to have a synth that absolutely nails all the difficult things (FM algorithms, routing, beautifully harmonic distortion and breakup across all frequencies, nice and diverse morphing) and then simple things like preset browsing or envelope dragging are so poor! Still, I'm just glad it exists. It's obviously half-finished (all that empty space in the voicing tab) but they got the right half done at least. I'm sure there will be another update of minor bug fixes and at best something like scroll wheel support, but I'd bet a lot of money nothing like importing wavetables or a new effect is ever going to happen.

And just to repeat myself, I think MX sounds better than any other synth and that it's not even close. I was ready to give it up for Pigments after spending time with all the lovely QOL stuff there (undos, comprehensive midi mapping, the additive engine, etc) but then I tried MX one last time and simply playing while sweeping through the default sin-saw table with the default filter sounded so much nicer than any other synth I tried that I decided I'm happy to live with all its idiosyncrasies. Still, I agree with what you're saying with this thread, it is a bit of a shame they probably won't ever build on the many things it did right.
I’d suggest checking out Dune 3. While not as competent in some ways, but more competent in others, it’s become my go-to. Just make sure you set the modulation quality level at high if you’re doing anything like using an oscillator as a source in the mod matrix.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:30 pm I’d suggest checking out Dune 3. While not as competent in some ways, but more competent in others, it’s become my go-to. Just make sure you set the modulation quality level at high if you’re doing anything like using an oscillator as a source in the mod matrix.
i love Dune 3, but would not give up MX for it; they both have their strengths (and, of course, weaknesses).

i don't understand why people can't use what sounds good for their music, while waiting out (or asking for) fixes, improvements. but again, that's just me; i use synth plugins to make music...
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fisherKing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 5:14 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:30 pm I’d suggest checking out Dune 3. While not as competent in some ways, but more competent in others, it’s become my go-to. Just make sure you set the modulation quality level at high if you’re doing anything like using an oscillator as a source in the mod matrix.
i love Dune 3, but would not give up MX for it; they both have their strengths (and, of course, weaknesses).

i don't understand why people can't use what sounds good for their music, while waiting out (or asking for) fixes, improvements. but again, that's just me; i use synth plugins to make music...
I don’t really understand the “my way or the highway” people either, but I can also understand why an issue can cause people to move on to something else. As it is now, I only use Massive X for bass and lead types of sounds. It’s become a replacement for my Pro 2. If someone were to come up with something that basically did everything that Massive X does at similar quality, I would abandon it. That day isn’t today.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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I would bet a kidney that Pigments will get to sound as good as MX before MX gets any update that brings it closer to Pigments GUI or QoL features
dedication to flying

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Actually, I just uninstalled MX because of that GUI lag. Pigments has way more responsive and well laid GUI and sounds very good to my ears. For 99€ it was instabuy. Bye bye MX.
My music:Soundcloud|Spotify Gear:Linux Mint MATE, Bitwig, Repro, Hive2, Axon 3, Battalion, Yellowjacket, Atomika, Mercury-4, Elka-X, Surge XT, Pigments, Valhalla Super Massive

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fisherKing wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:38 pm either way, corporations make products to make money, not earn 'dignity'. and the bottom line IS about money, so... no idea what your point is...
I can't agree since not all companies are made the same. NI was founded by enthusiasts/musicians/engineers not business economists fresh out of college looking for the shortest way to get rich doing actually very little. Companies founded by makers themselves surely are proud of their products and tend to work hard on them. Most famous brands in the world started this way. Dignity might be not the most fitting term, but proud very much. It's when companies grow to big, the founders are gone and all that administrative overhead is introduced things go south.

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Geomystery wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:06 pm Actually, I just uninstalled MX because of that GUI lag. Pigments has way more responsive and well laid GUI and sounds very good to my ears. For 99€ it was instabuy. Bye bye MX.

 
i got rid of pigments; great UI, fun to play with, but... the sound just didn't work for me (i couldn't fit it into my projects). i use MX a lot (despite a browser that worked better before), and it's less-friendly UI... because of it's sound.

just saying, it's all subjective (but makes for great arguments I MEAN discussions...)
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mi-os wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:29 pm
fisherKing wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:38 pm either way, corporations make products to make money, not earn 'dignity'. and the bottom line IS about money, so... no idea what your point is...

 
I can't agree since not all companies are made the same. NI was founded by enthusiasts/musicians/engineers not business economists fresh out of college looking for the shortest way to get rich doing actually very little. Companies founded by makers themselves surely are proud of their products and tend to work hard on them. Most famous brands in the world started this way. Dignity might be not the most fitting term, but proud very much. It's when companies grow to big, the founders are gone and all that administrative overhead is introduced things go south.

 
am not saying a corporation can't pursue dignity, a good rep; just saying that it's first responsibility is to survive & grow. and there's no rule that says a company will grow and must therefore lose it's credibility. either way, i don't buy corporations, i buy products; the right one for my needs (unless, of course, the company's a truly evil empire). mostly, tho, it's simple: i buy what i like
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fisherKing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:33 pm
Geomystery wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:06 pm Actually, I just uninstalled MX because of that GUI lag. Pigments has way more responsive and well laid GUI and sounds very good to my ears. For 99€ it was instabuy. Bye bye MX.

 
i got rid of pigments; great UI, fun to play with, but... the sound just didn't work for me (i couldn't fit it into my projects). i use MX a lot (despite a browser that worked better before), and it's less-friendly UI... because of it's sound.

just saying, it's all subjective (but makes for great arguments I MEAN discussions...)
I just don’t see the comparison sound wise. Pigments has great granular features, bland analog and wavetable synthesis, but combining them with the rest and usability, it’s great! IMO most comparable to Abysnth, not Massive X.

Next let’s compare Kontakt to Diva!

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machinesworking wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:41 pm
fisherKing wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:33 pm
Geomystery wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:06 pm Actually, I just uninstalled MX because of that GUI lag. Pigments has way more responsive and well laid GUI and sounds very good to my ears. For 99€ it was instabuy. Bye bye MX.


 
i got rid of pigments; great UI, fun to play with, but... the sound just didn't work for me (i couldn't fit it into my projects). i use MX a lot (despite a browser that worked better before), and it's less-friendly UI... because of it's sound.

just saying, it's all subjective (but makes for great arguments I MEAN discussions...)

 
I just don’t see the comparison sound wise. Pigments has great granular features, bland analog and wavetable synthesis, but combining them with the rest and usability, it’s great! IMO most comparable to Abysnth, not Massive X.

Next let’s compare Kontakt to Diva!

 
i had pigments, bought extra soundsets, had fun playing with it... but wasn't using it in actual projects. i deleted it, then, months later, reinstalled it & tried again. and same thing:deleted. yet i use MX a lot (and bought lots of additional soundsets for it).

so...we all have our own likes & dislikes, and can use what works best for the music we make.
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Pigments and Fragments is not working out for me, so I'll probably go back to Absynth FX version! How ironic!
<list your stupid gear here>

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Funny, I sort of thought this about Pigments when I first got it. Fun, kind of a “light” sounding synth, but lacking beef. Then they came out with the version that had the MS20 filter in it and I was impressed, but it was at a busy time and I was into something else. Today I thought, “let’s dive back in and see what all the naysayers are talking about.”

You’re nuts. Pigments is as good as anything. I mean, really good. If you can’t get a good sound out of it, it’s your fault. It can be digital and airy or pure corn fed beef. I made a bass sound that was really great. I seriously have to give it a lot more attention. Even the filter FM sounded pretty good to me. If you’ve not used Pigments for a few versions, you don’t know it. They’ve made a lot of improvements.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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