SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

[EvilDragon]

So "inspired by" rather than "modelled" might be more accurate and certainly more accurate than "emulation".

My take on this is: if all parameters of the synth engine respond as on the actual hardware unit, it's an emulation, not an inspired by. Even if sampled content is not identical - that's a bit beside the point, I would say. It cannot be there for obvious reasons, but if the format in which samples are stored is supported, that's fair game (hence mention of WaveRex custom ROMs etc).

[sheaf]

Well, I'm thinking it's similar to Dexed vs the DX7. Dexed doesn't ship with the DX7 factory presets either, but SysEx files are all over the web. SY77 SysEx files are all over the web too, including the original presets.

Presets and samples are different things. With Dexed you can make any sound the DX7 could (or almost, to keep the pedants at bay).

Without the proper sample content synths like the SY77 simply won't sound the same.

As for the samples, I agree it's not ideal that I can't simply have the original sample ROMs included, but it's not like they're very hard to find on the web either.

Just because they're easy to find that doesn't make them legal for us to use. That was my point since I don't want Yamaha's Lawyers to show up on your (or my) doorstep at some point so take care. It's also been KVR's policy to discourage talk of piracy.

All of the sample based hardware synths from that time period I owned had some unique sample content. It wasn't just Piano, Violins, etc. There was always something like "Alien Fog Whistle" or something similar. Samples that were unique to that unit.

Without those samples you could never hope to emulate those units and could only tribute them (not that way Vurt).

So "inspired by" rather than "modelled" might be more accurate and certainly more accurate than "emulation".

But having said that I may be a buyer of this synth depending on time spent with a demo. Sound, CPU performance, price point, etc.

So again good luck but be careful along the way not to anger the Lawyers (or the Mods).

Fair point. I'll avoid any further mentioning of the original sample ROMs.

Honestly, to me the original SY77 sounds are not even that important. I do get what you're saying about synths having their signature sounds, but I think with the SY77 its character is more in what you can do with it, and not the specific samples. Combining FM synthesis with samples is pretty unique among synths, and on top of that you can use the sample as a modulator too in the FM part.

For example, there is this classic SY77 patch called "Arianne" which is a FM sound layered with a pitched down tambourine for air. I'm including my own sampled tambourine so you could make a very similar sound. I think the magic is in being able to do layered stuff like that.

That said, I do understand many people will be a bit disappointed if they can't recreate the original patches, but there is nothing I can do about that. (Well, the ones featuring the samples anyway - there are also a lot of sounds that just use the FM module)

[EvilDragon]

I would love to hear the AWM filter comparison at various cutoffs/resonances/envelope modulations!

[sheaf]

Down to test this beauty if you need beta testers.

So great that someone is finally tackling this. Bravo! Instant buy for me. Let me know if you need testers. I have a sy77 at home to compare to (with waveblade and sy.factory).

Ohh..please yes best news since months in vst world
If you need any beta testers I'll be happy to help
I am so attached to my TG77 that I even consider buying a second one just for spare parts .

Thanks for the offer to test! I'm not quite ready to recruit testers yet, but once I am I'll post a request.

Edit/have you visited the sector 101 site?
The guy makes the legendary data-wavecards for yamaha tg-sy and roland ,and apparantly also has a link to the rom downloads of various tg cards , might come in usefull
https://sector101.co.uk/waveblade.html

Yeah, I know the site. Waveblade is a really cool project.

[gentleclockdivider]

Don't forget to include the operator overload bug , when it's maked out .at full velcoity
Also other quircks ,free operator routing does some gain reduction .( when using the feedforward method )
It's all documented here
https://gearspace.com/board/electronic- ... ocity.html

[sheaf]

I would love to hear the AWM filter comparison at various cutoffs/resonances/envelope modulations!

I would love to hear the AWM filter comparison at various cutoffs/resonances/envelope modulations!

I'll post detailed comparisons at some point in the future. The filter is quite strange really. The cutoff frequencies mentioned on the display do not even come close to the actual cutoff frequencies. I managed to get the frequency response really close, but the resonant peak at the higher resonance levels is a bit wider on the hardware, in the >5Khz region. I'm not yet sure how to improve that, but perceptually it's alright as it is.

[EvilDragon]

UI suggestion: it might be useful to have a mode where you can see all envelope parameters numerically (with smaller envelope graphic for overview), rather than requiring the user to mouse around a lot to select a node, then tweak values, then rinse repeat.

Otherwise, really slick GUI!

[sheaf]

Don't forget to include the operator overload bug , when it's maked out .at full velcoity
Also other quircks ,free operator routing does some gain reduction .( when using the feedforward method )
It's all documented here
https://gearspace.com/board/electronic- ... ocity.html

I didn't know about that, that's really interesting. I'll be sure to read that. Thanks!

[gentleclockdivider]

I am really excited , but be warned it will be scrutinized by real TG77 owners , and the bar is set exceptionally high since plogue did the DX7
Will you be using a lookup table ( grungy sounding in lower registers ) or a calculated sine ?

[Teksonik]

So "inspired by" rather than "modelled" might be more accurate and certainly more accurate than "emulation".

My take on this is: if all parameters of the synth engine respond as on the actual hardware unit, it's an emulation, not an inspired by. Even if sampled content is not identical - that's a bit beside the point, I would say.

Then your take on it is wrong. You can't release a MiniMoog without a Saw wave any more than you can release a sample based synth without the original sample content and call it an emulation. It's not "a bit beside the point" it is the point.

For example, I'd love an emulation of my Korg 03 R/W but without the original samples it wouldn't be an emulation, it would be a tribute. That's always been the issue with such sample based synths and one reason why so few have actually been emulated other than by their original manufacturers.

I get the legal part and that's why I brought it up. Do you have permission to download and use the SY77 sample content? If not then the whole concept is on shaky legal ground.

I'm surprised it came from you but I expected the same old KVR attitude where an analog emulation has to be perfect down to the DNA level but an emulation of any synth that has sample content can just be "any old samples because it doesn't matter". That attitude is simply incorrect.

Like I said before I may buy this synth if it sounds good but I'll go in to it knowing it's not an emulation but a tribute. If there are any legal issues then I'll pass.

[EvilDragon]

Analog emulation is a different matter IMO not a valid comparison here. I stand by my statement that if the digital synth engine in the plugin does to any sample you shove into it the same thing as the original digital synth engine in the hardware unit would (which can be tested by custom fitting additional samples through ROM cards which IS a possibility with SY77), it is a valid emulation of what that engine can do, and not a tribute.

There are no legal issues here, really. If you want to keep it clean, there is a way to do that - anyone owning a TG77 or SY77 can duplicate the data on the sample ROM chips for their own personal use. It's the distribution of that that is hairy, as we all know.

[andrewbrewer]

Following this!

[Weasel-Boy]

Following this!

Ditto!

[ghettosynth]

Analog emulation is a different matter IMO not a valid comparison here. I stand by my statement that if the digital synth engine in the plugin does to any sample you shove into it the same thing as the original digital synth engine in the hardware unit would (which can be tested by custom fitting additional samples through ROM cards which IS a possibility with SY77), it is a valid emulation of what that engine can do, and not a tribute.

There are no legal issues here, really. If you want to keep it clean, there is a way to do that - anyone owning a TG77 or SY77 can duplicate the data on the sample ROM chips for their own personal use. It's the distribution of that that is hairy, as we all know.

Exactly so. This is how the game industry uses the word "emulation." An Atari 2600 emulator doesn't need to ship with copyrighted Atari ROMS.

While I'm here. I'm also interested, with a caveat. I actually want a synth inspired moreso than emulated. I would love to see better filters. Yes, I have an SY77 and I also have several other early Yamaha Romplers. By modern standards the filters are crap. I would love to see a synth that is inspired but capable of emulation. Not so much because I care about the purists, I don't. But because I think that you have to get as close as you can to sell to the purists/near purists. We've learned this from Behringer. Most people want emulations, not inspirations.

Finally, icing on the cake would be either Serial number only or iLok for copy protection. I've pretty much stopped buying anything C/R from small/new vendors.

[audiojunkie]

I'm creating a synth that's meant to emulate the Yamaha SY77. The goal is to make it 100% SysEx compatible and sounding as close as possible to the real thing. I've pretty much got all the internals working, apart from the effects section.

I'm now in the process of measuring all parameters of a TG77 and making sure they are modeled correctly. I'm close to having done everything related to the AWM2 module. The AFM module is next. Finally I'll have to implement the effects section, but I'll probably release a beta version before that.

The synth can load the preset SY55/SY77 sample ROMs and Wavecard expansions if the files are present in the right directory, but I can't bundle them with the plugin for obvious reasons. I'm making a custom sample ROM instead so I can ship it with presets that use more than just the FM module.

For more information: https://sheafmusic.com/sway

Demos

Demo 1:


Demo 2:
https://www.sheafmusic.com/_nuxt/SwayDe ... 31317.flac

Demo 3:


Screenshots

So cool!!! Please support Linux!!!