DRM/Subscription = Suicide

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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Frankie.T wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:47 am
IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:18 am
Frankie.T wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:02 am
IvyBirds wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:26 pm In all honesty however how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?

Can you not just record and use stems if you need to remix?

And if you need to change the timbre just use a different plugin
It also happens you create a song that isn't ready to be released because it's out of trend, or for whatever reason, but in few years things can change.
This is not a theory, i produce music since 25 years ago, and this happend to me different time.

I am smart enough to print/record the stems so its not an issue. Printing stems is the way to go a wav file is forever.

I am also smart enough to save the MIDI file
You cannot change wav as midi, you cannot use i.e. a synth in a wav file as a synth preset file to write new melodies for a newer project.
If that is your take away then it's obvious you have never actually worked with a DAW or a plugin

I have been making music for decades going way back to the 1980s and have been using MIDI for just as long

If you are so amazingly ignorant that you fail to understand why saving the MIDI files from your sequences in your DAW might be important if you ever want to revisit old tracks just quit now

But since you are obviously ignorant to such things here is a clue

You can use a sequencer to play a plugin with MIDI. That MIDI file will contain all the note on and off DATA, velocities, AT, pitch bends, and and any CC data

If you no longer have access to that old plugin or want to use a different plugin you can use that same Midi file to play another one

If you play a synth live and record it, by recording the MIDI data at the same time you can swap out that synth for another again using the MIDI Data

That should be obvious to anyone with even a basic understanding of music production but obviously that is not you

See that is something you know now

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stoniegreen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:06 am
IvyBirds wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:26 pm In all honesty however how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?

Can you not just record and use stems if you need to remix?

And if you need to change the timbre just use a different plugin
I'm one of them.

I still go back to projects I did on Buzzmachines and Acid Music Studio from way back in 2003-2005. I still sample some machines from Buzzmachines and I'm able to use the exact same folder that existed in my WinXP in Win11 Pro.

When you buy a guitar/piano/ any other physical musical instrument, it don't become obsolete as long as you take care of them. You should want the same for your virtual instruments as well.

When you depend on the "cloud" for anything that's "yours", it's out of your hands really. It's ultimately not yours.

I've also been moving my workflow to using only DAW/instruments/effects that doesn't need any online activation to begin working. A simple serial number is all that's needed.

Unpopular opinion, I'm sure.
But that is not revisiting old projects is it? If you buy a guitar and want to record a track you used it on you would access the recording you made of using that guitar, or use that same guitar to record a new one

You reference the stems which is exactly my point, so thanks for proving my point

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IvyBirds wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:26 pm In all honesty however how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?

Can you not just record and use stems if you need to remix?

And if you need to change the timbre just use a different plugin
And what about old notation projects? I have sibelius 7 when I was student. I have some pieces written in this software and I wanted open old projects and import them into daw or another notation software. I can't because actiavtion for sibelius 7 is not supported anymore. I have to pay for new sibelius just for open my old compositions although I have legal old version. Also I wanted a compose in this software because I like it. But not interest in newer versions.

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:36 am
Frankie.T wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:47 am
IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:18 am
Frankie.T wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:02 am
IvyBirds wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:26 pm In all honesty however how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?

Can you not just record and use stems if you need to remix?

And if you need to change the timbre just use a different plugin
It also happens you create a song that isn't ready to be released because it's out of trend, or for whatever reason, but in few years things can change.
This is not a theory, i produce music since 25 years ago, and this happend to me different time.

I am smart enough to print/record the stems so its not an issue. Printing stems is the way to go a wav file is forever.

I am also smart enough to save the MIDI file
You cannot change wav as midi, you cannot use i.e. a synth in a wav file as a synth preset file to write new melodies for a newer project.
If that is your take away then it's obvious you have never actually worked with a DAW or a plugin

I have been making music for decades going way back to the 1980s and have been using MIDI for just as long

If you are so amazingly ignorant...
I stopped reading there.

I have no interest in talking to people who insult

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:40 am
stoniegreen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:06 am
IvyBirds wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:26 pm In all honesty however how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?

Can you not just record and use stems if you need to remix?

And if you need to change the timbre just use a different plugin
I'm one of them.

I still go back to projects I did on Buzzmachines and Acid Music Studio from way back in 2003-2005. I still sample some machines from Buzzmachines and I'm able to use the exact same folder that existed in my WinXP in Win11 Pro.

When you buy a guitar/piano/ any other physical musical instrument, it don't become obsolete as long as you take care of them. You should want the same for your virtual instruments as well.

When you depend on the "cloud" for anything that's "yours", it's out of your hands really. It's ultimately not yours.

I've also been moving my workflow to using only DAW/instruments/effects that doesn't need any online activation to begin working. A simple serial number is all that's needed.

Unpopular opinion, I'm sure.
But that is not revisiting old projects is it? If you buy a guitar and want to record a track you used it on you would access the recording you made of using that guitar, or use that same guitar to record a new one

You reference the stems which is exactly my point, so thanks for proving my point
Your question was "how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?"

I literally said I revisit old projects. They load up exactly as how they existed 20 years ago. Within the same DAW from 20 years ago using the same plugins. Depending on subscription based crap those projects are gone forever. Things goes offline all the time. Same for VSTs where the activation server no longer exists.



And in answer to Greenstorm33 question: "You've made the decision to limit your options"

My answer is: you can't be serious. We are swamped with great DAWs, great VSTs nowadays. A lot of them free. Honestly, there is zero need to pay for anything to make great music anymore once you buy a decent computer/laptop. I'm all for using what I have effectively instead of chasing the next big thing.

I only made like 25, now 26 posts on here since 2007. That's not the definition of, how you put it: "endlessly gripe about things that aren't serial-based."

It's more fun making music than being on these forums anyway. I should have known better.

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Frankie.T wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:57 am [
I stopped reading there.

I have no interest in talking to people who insult
Again hilarious of course you not only read everything I wrote but you wish to continue talking to me, if you didn't you would not have quoted me and continued to talk to me

You obviously have no idea how DAWs or MIDI works

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f**king edgelords.
past few days, ive seen companies being accused of genocide, the cycle of abuse and now drm is like suicide?
wtf?

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stoniegreen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:06 am I literally said I revisit old projects. They load up exactly as how they existed 20 years ago. Within the same DAW from 20 years ago using the same plugins. Depending on subscription based crap those projects are gone forever. Things goes offline all the time. Same for VSTs where the activation server no longer exists.
I revisit old projects also. I use stems and MIDI files and use them in a modern DAW on a modern PC, with hard drive space, processing speeds, and RAM that was science fiction 20 years ago

In 2004 if you said I would have multiple TBs of solid state drives, 32GBs of ram and the processing power of an I9, I would not have believed you

If my projects from 20 years ago are important enough to revisit I can easily do so with my stems and MIDI files

If the timbres used on the tracks need tweaking I have modern plugins that sound better than I had back then, if they don't I use the stems

Of course 20 years ago when computers sucked relative to what they do today, I was also using a ton of hardware synths. Those Synths are long gone, as such I either use the stems or something else anyway

That's where rental programs come in handy. Twenty years ago I had a hardware D50 that I loved and used on everything. I also had a JV1080

If I absolutely needed a D50 or a JV1080 and couldn't get an appropriate substitute using Omnisphere, Falcon, or HALion7 I could just subscribe for a month or two to the Roland Cloud and not have to buy anything

Should also say that if I design a new patch that I really like using one of my myriad of plugins, I use an Auto Sampler to make a Kontact or HALion7 preset from that timbre

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vurt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:12 am f**king edgelords.
past few days, ive seen companies being accused of genocide, the cycle of abuse and now drm is like suicide?
wtf?
oh come on. You're a senior member here. You know how many fuktards inhabit this place 😂😂
I wonder what happens if I press this button...

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vurt wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:12 am f**king edgelords.
past few days, ive seen companies being accused of genocide, the cycle of abuse and now drm is like suicide?
wtf?
ok-edgelord-small.gif
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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stoniegreen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:06 am
IvyBirds wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 5:26 pm In all honesty however how many people need access to their old projects or even go back to them?

Can you not just record and use stems if you need to remix?

And if you need to change the timbre just use a different plugin
I'm one of them.

I still go back to projects I did on Buzzmachines and Acid Music Studio from way back in 2003-2005. I still sample some machines from Buzzmachines and I'm able to use the exact same folder that existed in my WinXP in Win11 Pro.

When you buy a guitar/piano/ any other physical musical instrument, it don't become obsolete as long as you take care of them. You should want the same for your virtual instruments as well.

When you depend on the "cloud" for anything that's "yours", it's out of your hands really. It's ultimately not yours.

I've also been moving my workflow to using only DAW/instruments/effects that doesn't need any online activation to begin working. A simple serial number is all that's needed.

Unpopular opinion, I'm sure.
Computer and program for computer's operating system is not the same as pure instrument. There is no sense in even making a comparison like that.

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:25 am
I revisit old projects also. I use stems and MIDI files and use them in a modern DAW on a modern PC, with hard drive space, processing speeds, and RAM that was science fiction 20 years ago

In 2004 if you said I would have multiple TBs of solid state drives, 32GBs of ram and the processing power of an I9, I would not have believed you
That's the beauty of it. We can go back and completely redo projects that were limited at the time by inexperience and hardware limitations.
Lbdunequest wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:09 am
Computer and program for computer's operating system is not the same as pure instrument. There is no sense in even making a comparison like that.
You don't use virtual instruments to makes music? Hardware synth, piano, guitar, VSTs.. it all makes music. They all require a little maintenance if you want to use them for years. It's just that the maintenance to do so for virtual gear is a bit different.

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stoniegreen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 12:08 pm
IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:25 am
I revisit old projects also. I use stems and MIDI files and use them in a modern DAW on a modern PC, with hard drive space, processing speeds, and RAM that was science fiction 20 years ago

In 2004 if you said I would have multiple TBs of solid state drives, 32GBs of ram and the processing power of an I9, I would not have believed you
That's the beauty of it. We can go back and completely redo projects that were limited at the time by inexperience and hardware limitations.
How do I go back and revisit projects that were running on 32 bit Windows or Motorola based Macs using modern PCs and operating systems?

I have a bunch of software that was on Windows 98se and then XP that I can only run in a VM and can only see up to 4GB of RAM

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Sigh.

So many comments from those who can't (or don't want to) see beyond their own use case, or those who feel that if something isn't important to them, then it shouldn't be important to anyone else.

I have a dedicated MS-DOS machine from 1999 that is running the copy of Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Gold that I bought in the early 90s, and a few hardware synths I can run with it. It's perfect for rapid composition of demos since I used it enough to practically develop muscle memory for all the keyboard shortcuts. Even though it's all packed up in the closet and I'm using the latest Logic Pro now entirely with softsynths, I can unpack it all at a moment's notice if I want to be inspired by an old friend of a tool that I will always be used to working with. And if that MS-DOS machine ever failed and I need to reinstall Sequencer Plus, I could do that without any issues. Why? Because Voyetra didn't saddle it with the kind of copy protection mechanisms that have rendered so many other music software titles since then useless.

As I said, I use Logic now so I don't need to use this old setup, but I can if I want to, and I like having that choice. And it's not always about going back to finish old projects, sometimes it's about connecting with certain tools that inspire you and being able to keep using them if you want. It's about choice.

People keep asking why anyone would need to go back and use old software, when the right question to ask is, why should it be made needlessly difficult or impossible if they just want to, for any reason at all?

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i reckon the old ways weren't any better, we were just more blissfully ignorant back then.

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