DRM/Subscription = Suicide

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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funky lime wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 2:31 pm i reckon the old ways weren't any better, we were just more blissfully ignorant back then.
Everyone was more idealistic about the internet twenty years ago, before social media came along (and the normies) ruined it. But that was naivety by those of us who thought the internet was going to be a force for good.
<list your stupid gear here>

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osofaux wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 12:30 pm Sigh.

So many comments from those who can't (or don't want to) see beyond their own use case, or those who feel that if something isn't important to them, then it shouldn't be important to anyone else.

I have a dedicated MS-DOS machine from 1999 that is running the copy of Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Gold that I bought in the early 90s, and a few hardware synths I can run with it.
SIGH so many comments from those who can't (or don't want to) see beyond their own use case, or those who feel that if something isn't important to them, then it shouldn't be important to anyone else.

It's awesome you have a computer from 1999, myself and millions of other people have long moved past DOS and we are talking about Plugins not a sequencer you run in DOS

But I guess you don't want to see that

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 3:09 pm
osofaux wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 12:30 pm Sigh.

So many comments from those who can't (or don't want to) see beyond their own use case, or those who feel that if something isn't important to them, then it shouldn't be important to anyone else.

I have a dedicated MS-DOS machine from 1999 that is running the copy of Voyetra's Sequencer Plus Gold that I bought in the early 90s, and a few hardware synths I can run with it.
SIGH so many comments from those who can't (or don't want to) see beyond their own use case, or those who feel that if something isn't important to them, then it shouldn't be important to anyone else.

It's awesome you have a computer from 1999, myself and millions of other people have long moved past DOS and we are talking about Plugins not a sequencer you run in DOS

But I guess you don't want to see that
The OP is about how DRM kills software over time, and the video provided uses old games as an example, but it is germane to music software as well. The example I gave is how I'm still able to use and enjoy a decades old piece of music software if I choose, because it does not require activation or subscription or any other types of copy protection that have rendered all manner of software that is much newer than that, including plugins, unusable since that time. The example is given to illustrate the OP's point. I do see that you and millions of other people have moved beyond those tools, because I use also newer tools myself, as I also stated. Nothing at all wrong with that. But there's nothing wrong with running old software either, and advocating for the ability to install and run it as long as one can maintain a compatible computer and OS.

Calling DRM and subscription based software "suicide" is a little hyperbolic, but I do see it as fundamentally anti-consumer. It is inevitable that everything will become obsolete given enough time, but I don't see an upside to allowing companies to arbitrarily decide that for us. I don't see an upside to allowing companies the ability to render otherwise usable software inoperable on a whim.

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There is another huge drawback for that kind of torture of paying customers. It hit me several times in real life. You are about to do a live gig, no internet available, you simply didn't use that Reason Rack the last month. And boom it doesn't work.
The only safe solution is throw it out of your live set...
Unfortunately Reason Rack has some unique instruments I would love to incorporate into some live improvisations...
I guess that Reasonstudios have enough studio nerds with permanent internet connection as customers. Unfortunately it does not kill them.

If it would be suicide, that would be the best lesson to teach them...

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The sad thing is that outfits like Reason Studios, Fender, NI, etc probably don't really even need to charge for subscriptions since they can track user activity and sell that as marketing data. Since they have a large captive audience, make them pay and take advantage of them as well. They all do that no doubt, I recently had to write a letter basically, to stop Samsung from selling the data they collect from my tv habits. I also just had to install a 3rd party extension to get rid of the Microsoft start page in MS edge, they make money from all the bullshit ads. Seriously...

Like Samsung, they literally have no right to do it, but can make it nearly impossible
to opt out.

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stoniegreen wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 12:08 pm
IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:25 am
I revisit old projects also. I use stems and MIDI files and use them in a modern DAW on a modern PC, with hard drive space, processing speeds, and RAM that was science fiction 20 years ago

In 2004 if you said I would have multiple TBs of solid state drives, 32GBs of ram and the processing power of an I9, I would not have believed you
That's the beauty of it. We can go back and completely redo projects that were limited at the time by inexperience and hardware limitations.
Lbdunequest wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:09 am
Computer and program for computer's operating system is not the same as pure instrument. There is no sense in even making a comparison like that.
You don't use virtual instruments to makes music? Hardware synth, piano, guitar, VSTs.. it all makes music. They all require a little maintenance if you want to use them for years. It's just that the maintenance to do so for virtual gear is a bit different.
Seeing all of them as 1 is a quite narrow minded dont you say? Virtual is virtual, its a computer program and maintenance is something can be dictated by the 3rd parties like operating system creators ect. and its understandable why some programs has end of life.

Now you compare real instrument to a vst instrument. If you buy a real instrument and its warranty ends, to maintain it you dont ask creator to change capacitors or other stuff right for free? you do it yourself or ask some one else for a payment to do it? So in this case same should applied to a software program, If there is something wrong you can always hire a programer if you cant maintain the thing right?

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Edit: nevermind lol

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funky lime wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:08 am Edit: nevermind lol
yea, same

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osofaux wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 4:39 pm
The OP is about how DRM kills software over time, and the video provided uses old games as an example, but it is germane to music software as well. The example I gave is how I'm still able to use and enjoy a decades old piece of music software if I choose,
Your solution is to use a DOS based sequencer and hardware synths

By why stop there why not just use a hardware sequencer and hardware synths and avoid a computer at all, head over to gearspace and hang out with the hardware purists

Your hardware synths will eventually break and require money to repair or end up in a landfill

I have been there, done that and never want to go there again

It also becomes increasingly difficult to access old projects when you rely on hardware synths as you can never sell anything and that takes physical space assuming they still work and don't need repair

As for me I think when it comes to plugins, the plugins I currently own sound way better than the ones I owned 20 years ago, and 20 years from now if I am still alive I am sure my virtual instruments will sound better than the ones I use today

There are many reasons to avoid Subscriptions and many reasons to use them, worrying about DRM breaking them so 20 years from now you can't revisit that song that sucks so bad today you abandon it without finishing it, is not one of them

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Comparing the futureproof-ness of a $29 plugin to old hardware must take economics into account. A Lexicon 480 cost what, $10k new? A Quadraverb was over a grand in today's prices. etc. etc. etc.. (Plus whatever maintenance costs would have come up over the past 40+ years.)

Dealing with this will require some effort - keeping old machines if you wish, exporting stems and MIDI and being prepared to use new plugins/rework whatever archival material you're concerned with. If you bought all that hardware in 1985 that you never had to buy again and still works, your archive of that era is, if you're lucky... multi-track tape.

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I just wanted to make a quick comment on this 80% of my software
studio is either no copy protection - freeware - magware - keyfile -
regedit - serial number - ilok dongle - elisencer dongle. The other 20% C/R stuff
I can't seem to let go. It only takes me like two hours two restore my studio and
I got installers for everything.

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Lbdunequest wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:17 pm
Seeing all of them as 1 is a quite narrow minded dont you say? Virtual is virtual, its a computer program and maintenance is something can be dictated by the 3rd parties like operating system creators ect. and its understandable why some programs has end of life.

Now you compare real instrument to a vst instrument. If you buy a real instrument and its warranty ends, to maintain it you dont ask creator to change capacitors or other stuff right for free? you do it yourself or ask some one else for a payment to do it? So in this case same should applied to a software program, If there is something wrong you can always hire a programer if you cant maintain the thing right?
This is going to be my last post here on this forum, I have better things to do, but I'm going to address this one last time:

A VST instrument is a real instrument. You make music with it. Some may want to keep an old hardware synth, some may want to keep an old VST that's no longer available. Just because you can't physically fondle a VST instrument doesn't make it any less important than a physical one.

As for your comment about hiring a programmer for maintenance shows me that you just want to argue for argument's sake. I already provided examples of how I'm able to use the virtual VSTs/DAWs relevant for decades now. Another user here also provided their example of keeping an old computer around. Not one mention of wanting a programmer, huh. Imagine that.

What surprises me the most nowadays and by some on here is how quickly the idea of options and choices for consumers is frowned upon. This thread is about not wanting to be trapped by planned obsolescence and throwing money away for subscriptions to virtual gear which you'll never own. You would think this would be a popular idea, but nothing surprises me any more.

I said and defended my 2 cents. I'm now going to follow the lead of Ronan Fed and just go enjoy making music. Offline.

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My best practices is to save samples or sims just because cakewalk has been crashing on me and because I use other software including video software. Seeing all those old programs again on some sort of linux system running wine and using whatever forgotten software would be a great addition to my arsenal. I was thinking to play live though you need samples and then use a pc or a sampler whatever as hardware and not an online connection.. When you go back to samples then you have a bunch of linux software projects you can use.

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Hang on just a sec. There are people going back to projects they created decades ago and not literally straining their necks via cringe?

I lost about 10 years of stuff I made using Rebirth, Reason 3 and Fruity Loops. And honestly, the world is a better place for it.

That said, I bounce all midi parts to audio, not necessarily to future proof it but because audio is way easier to manage than multiple midi lanes and FX automation. And because being able to constantly go back and 'make stuff better' almost always makes things worse and leads to never finishing a project let alone a 16 bar loop.

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stoniegreen wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 5:32 pm
Lbdunequest wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:17 pm
Seeing all of them as 1 is a quite narrow minded dont you say? Virtual is virtual, its a computer program and maintenance is something can be dictated by the 3rd parties like operating system creators ect. and its understandable why some programs has end of life.

Now you compare real instrument to a vst instrument. If you buy a real instrument and its warranty ends, to maintain it you dont ask creator to change capacitors or other stuff right for free? you do it yourself or ask some one else for a payment to do it? So in this case same should applied to a software program, If there is something wrong you can always hire a programer if you cant maintain the thing right?
This is going to be my last post here on this forum, I have better things to do, but I'm going to address this one last time:

A VST instrument is a real instrument. You make music with it. Some may want to keep an old hardware synth, some may want to keep an old VST that's no longer available. Just because you can't physically fondle a VST instrument doesn't make it any less important than a physical one.

As for your comment about hiring a programmer for maintenance shows me that you just want to argue for argument's sake. I already provided examples of how I'm able to use the virtual VSTs/DAWs relevant for decades now. Another user here also provided their example of keeping an old computer around. Not one mention of wanting a programmer, huh. Imagine that.

What surprises me the most nowadays and by some on here is how quickly the idea of options and choices for consumers is frowned upon. This thread is about not wanting to be trapped by planned obsolescence and throwing money away for subscriptions to virtual gear which you'll never own. You would think this would be a popular idea, but nothing surprises me any more.

I said and defended my 2 cents. I'm now going to follow the lead of Ronan Fed and just go enjoy making music. Offline.
Instrument indeed is an instrument, but because of how different the platform it is you should understand that different aproach on handling is needed. Since you equate vst instrument to hardware instrument i equate how it should be handled then - same as a hardware instrument, but it seems you prefer to have double standarts (dont we all):)

bye bye :)

p.s. i have no idea who Ronan Fed is, but i dont care :)

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