Amp-less Rigs!

[tommyzai]

Can those who use an amp-less rig share their set-up, workflow, chain, etc? I just watched this vid, and I'm in shock. The dude clearly knows his stuff, but YIKES . . . the complexity is making me consider going acoustic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=435BGCsQ4Io

Screenshot 2024-03-03 at 12.16.56 PM.png

[lfm]

Consider the video as sales pitch, and for professionals or those that want to appear professional.

Don't be fooled that going acoustic will stop your gear aquisition
- especially going on a budget
- tone and playability will always make you want more over time unless you spend $2000 or so.

Let your taste develop as you go, whatever path.
- most importantly get a guitar that you enjoy playing
- I play electrics mostly acoustically to maintain and develop skills

The floor board will ever change for electrics. Just go with basic stuff to start with.
- if you go software it will be preset hunting, it will stop you more than you think
- if you go hardware it will be stomp box pedals hunting most likely

You don't need to have it all to start with as suggested in the video.

I think modelling amps might be good as Fender series with ability to upload the choice of pedals and stomp boxes on it.
- not sure if it's called Mustang series or something now
- I have an old Superchamp X2 that used the Fuse software, not available anymore
- Superchamp had 16 position knob, to choose which amp and stomp boxes are there
- you will have an amp and can use headphones if you want
- if you want to bring to people you play with, now or later, hardware is good
- just power on and play
- no computers and software to load before playing
- you have on modern amps DI output to computer too usually

Amp sims are much better now than 20 years ago I tried them. But as read in many threads here it becomes preset hunting. Constantly stopping you having fun and enjoy to be a better player.

But the ones available now with a hardware unit and then software to upload the options you want available is praised by many.
You probably want
- a clean sound, and something that breaks up a little bit, and a hard crunch style

Just some options....

[tommyzai]

lfm, thanks so much for taking the time to add your insight to this thread. Great stuff!! Much appreciation for listing some options and potential pitfalls.

[kevinsparks]

The BluGuitar Amp1 is great for what it is. A 100 watt, 4 voice, 2 channel, analog guitar Amp that can run with or without a speaker cab. It fits on a pedal board, but it will also sit on a cab just fine.

That + a Boss ME-80 or 90 would give you a very simple setup with lots of fx choices

[zerocrossing]

I used to gig without amps for years. Here’s what I’ve learned.

Keep it simple. Every single connection is a potential point of failure.

Ultimate sound quality is irrelevant. That doesn’t mean you should aim for lackluster sound, and you definitely don’t have to, but if you think that your boutique pedals or amp’s souls are being appreciated at most venues, you’re delusional. In fact, a good amp sim will sound much better and let the entire band sound better, because loud stage volumes are the worst for engineers to mix.

The days for needing $2000+ amp sims are long gone. Small devices like the HX Stomp sound as good as an AxeFX 3 or Kemper.

So, my recommendation would be to buy the amp modeler that sounds good to you and has all the features you need. If I were playing live again, I’d get an HX Stomp XL, which I actually did buy. If you don’t own them, buy two expression pedals for volume and wha control. That’s it. I’d need nothing else, and it sounds fantastic. I got it with a free license of Helix Native.

[electro]

real pedals infront of ToneX plugin?

[Andreya_Autumn]

I stopped using guitar amps a while ago. Instead I keep a pedal board starting with an Origin Revival and ending with a Neunaber Iconoclast.

The latter is the most critical part really. With a good speaker simulation pedal at the end of your board you'll probably be perfectly fine going straight into the front of house no matter what the rest of your stuff is.

If you want to simplify it down from that video, here's a good starting point: Any drive pedal you like + any EQ pedal + the Iconoclast. Then you can add whatever you want in between. Simple as that.

[imrae]

I used to gig with a modelling floorboard and no amp on stage, it's good until one hits a venue with bad monitoring. Having a loud box on stage means you can always hear yourself.

[zerocrossing]

I used to gig with a modelling floorboard and no amp on stage, it's good until one hits a venue with bad monitoring. Having a loud box on stage means you can always hear yourself.

I’ve run into this. It’s really crap. I did a gig in Santa Cruz where the guy invited me to come play and I asked him if I should bring any of my own PA gear and he said, “no, we’re covered.” What he meant was, “My brother and I are covered and you’ll do without.” They literally would not move a monitor over 15 feet so I could have one and shoved me off to the side of the stage. Unclear why they bothered to invite me and then set me up to fail, but there you go. I luckily had a pair of headphones so I used that, but it was less than ideal. I vowed that I’d never go anywhere without my own monitors, I’d probably do in-ear models these days. That ended up being my last live show. I just wasn’t that into it, and realized I hadn’t been for a long time.

[Andreya_Autumn]

Yeah onstage monitoring can be a challenge indeed. Bigger venues really should have you covered, it's typically at smaller ones you run into this issue. I've got a little Fishman Loudbox that works really well for this purpose, though it wouldn't be enough for a loud show on a big stage. I don't play very many of those anyway, and again, that's not where you're likely to have this problem.

[lunardigs]

+1 for personal amplification

You could use a small combo amp, or a fancy light weight, full range monitor, with a class D amp, that's shaped like a wedge or mounts on a pole. There's LOTS of options.
You could even run your own in-ear monitors if you wanted.

[zerocrossing]

Just saw the first show of the Beat tour (Adrian Belew’s 80s era King Crimson cover band) and Adrian and Steve Vai both were sporting Fractal AxeFX 3s. There were Roland JC120s on stage, but I’m not sure why, everyone had in-ear monitors. Guitars sounded great, but the mix was kind of terrible (way too boomy) and blisteringly loud.

[tapper mike]

but I’m not sure why, everyone had in-ear monitors.

The further away you are from your fellow musicians the harder it is to keep track of time. This is why in an orchestra the conductor stands front and center. and directs sometimes ahead of the beat and sometimes behind. The same thing happens with Cathedral Organists It's the time that it takes for those huge bass pipes to push the air out and then back down.

Amps on stage are mostly for show, As was the case with KISS live performances.

Adam Neely goes into great detail about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHoljbkyAEs

[zerocrossing]

but I’m not sure why, everyone had in-ear monitors.

The further away you are from your fellow musicians the harder it is to keep track of time. This is why in an orchestra the conductor stands front and center. and directs sometimes ahead of the beat and sometimes behind. The same thing happens with Cathedral Organists It's the time that it takes for those huge bass pipes to push the air out and then back down.

Amps on stage are mostly for show, As was the case with KISS live performances.

Adam Neely goes into great detail about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHoljbkyAEs

Sorry, but try and think a bit about what you wrote. The speed of sound is irrelevant in relation to a conductor, as the orchestra is relying on visual cues, and since light is basically instantaneous at those distances, the conductor would not play ahead of the beat, though you would see the beginning of a gesture and be able to anticipate the tempo based on the repetition.

Anyway, I’ve been going to King Crimson and other complex bands since the 80s, long before in-ear monitors were a thing, and if anything, Adrain and friends were less tight than usual. I suspect age and that it was the first show of the tour. I did see a post where Adrian announced Beat rehearsals were starting, and I thought, “this late?” Considering 2 members had never played with King Crimson, I thought that was cutting it close. Vai and Cary were actually super good, though. Belew was the one who was off the most, but he’s also singing. I’m sure by midway through the tour, they’ll be as tight as usual, regardless as to the technology they use for monitoring.

TL;DR: the properly functioning human brain is awesome at compensating for small delays due to sound travel.

[tapper mike]

've seeb King Crimson, Ted Nugent, Bruce Springsteen, Blondie, The Who and several others at larger venues. They all ran stage monitors so they could hear themselves and the rest of the band.

BRUCE_BELFAST_5-scaled.jpg

Notice the stage monitor on the lower left of Springsteen. The standard method is to mic all the amps and send them along with the instruments to a single stage mixer then send different mixes out back to the stage and a secondary line of the entire mix to the house.

Having mics going through mixers and then to nearby monitors sends the signal faster to the ear of the said musician than across a live stage or getting muffled through the room/stage reverb that is present. The problem is it gets too freaking loud trying to drown out the other sounds by jacking up the stage monitors.


Here's a short list
https://us.hearingdirect.com/blogs/blog ... s-tinnitus

Using in ear monitors allows one to cancel louder stage noise and listen to music at a lower level.

TV talk shows use in ear systems, Major touring acts also use in ear systems. They are cheaper than stage monitors and they reduce the sound level for the musician to a sane level.
If you jump to around the 12 minute mark of this 11 year old video Sid McGinnis explains how everyone is using either in ear or on ear monitors live on stage for The Late Show with David Letterman.

And a final note.... I really miss Rebecca Dirks hosting Premier Guitar vids.