ToneX versus

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Uncle E wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:34 am I assume he's talking about capture quality. So if someone made a "garbage" capture, the modeler is going to sound "garbage". There was a Rhett Shull video where he completely messed up the gain staging, which is fine since he's new to it and it's admittedly not easy, but he was doing it alongside someone who sells captures, and that's a problem.

Personally, I've gotten much better results with Tonex when I loaded NAM captures into Genome. I've also gotten better results with my own captures than with most Tonex captures, although ~20% of them are some of the best sounds I've gotten ITB.
And therein lies the problem of capturing vs modeling. I actually agree with Peter's garbage in garbage out statement. BUT.....his, (and othe IK employees), responses to user issues, (bugs!), with IK's actual products both hard and soft have often been accusatorial, condescending and less than helpful. That being said, I have been an IK customer for many years. If their products were of a lesser quality I would have abandoned them long ago as I have many other devs that exhibit such poor support of both their customers and products. After they screwed me over with the Stealth Pedal and the original Stomp I/O I swore I'd never buy another piece of IK hardware. But, like the idiot I am, I bought a second hand AXE I/O only to find that IK refuses to host the drivers/control panel on their website and refused to help me with them as the unit was already registered. I have NEVER EVER had ANY manufacturere of audio/midi interfaces do me, (and everyone else that made the mistake of buying an AXE in the secondary market), do me that dirty. And, at one time or another, I've owned interfaces from nearly every manufacturer. Even AVID hosts legacy drivers on their website.

And ,yes, making great captures requires a bit of patience and there's definitely a learning curve. Just sifting thru the many profiles is a bit of rabbit hole to go down. But, thankfully, there are a few guys like Amalgam that are masters. It's just takes time to weed out the stinkers. If Tonex had better preset handling like say Amplitube that chore would be much less difficult. I realize Amplitube is a modeler but all the other capture/profiling ampsims out there Like Overloud TH-U, ReValver and even the open source NAM have preset browser that are both easier to navigate and organize.
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's

https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main

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CapnLockheed wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 11:23 am I realize Amplitube is a modeler but all the other capture/profiling ampsims out there Like Overloud TH-U, ReValver and even the open source NAM have preset browser that are both easier to navigate and organize.
Yes, agreed, TH-U is great for this. As an ecosystem, it's probably the best.

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Uncle E wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:00 pm
CapnLockheed wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 11:23 am I realize Amplitube is a modeler but all the other capture/profiling ampsims out there Like Overloud TH-U, ReValver and even the open source NAM have preset browser that are both easier to navigate and organize.
Yes, agreed, TH-U is great for this. As an ecosystem, it's probably the best.
Are the THU profile player’s captures real full-fledged profiles though? I tried it a while back and the few free profiles they had available to try sounded just like a modeler (no real power amp/output transformer dynamics).

ToneX seemed way more real to me, but maybe it’s just that they include an excellent tweed Deluxe profile where the free THU profiles (at least the ones initially available) all seemed like metal crap (sterile clean or flat square wave – your choice). ReValver’s supposed profile player seemed the same to me (like just a superficial EQ match rather than a real profile capture).

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guitarzan wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 2:11 pm Are the THU profile player’s captures real full-fledged profiles though? I tried it a while back and the few free profiles they had available to try sounded just like a modeler (no real power amp/output transformer dynamics).
The free profiles are hideous. I don’t know why they even bother including those. They should take samples from the rig profiles they sell, which are actually quite good—BHS and Choptones are good starting places. They let you try out any of them for free (I think it’s 24 hours). Check 'em out: https://www.overloud.com/rig-libraries

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CapnLockheed wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 11:23 amIf Tonex had better preset handling like say Amplitube that chore would be much less difficult. I realize Amplitube is a modeler but all the other capture/profiling ampsims out there Like Overloud TH-U, ReValver and even the open source NAM have preset browser that are both easier to navigate and organize.
Why not use Tonex captures inside Amplitube and turn them into presets? That’s what I do.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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The free profiles are hideous. I don’t know why they even bother including those. They should take samples from the rig profiles they sell, which are actually quite good—BHS and Choptones are good starting places. They let you try out any of them for free (I think it’s 24 hours). Check 'em out: https://www.overloud.com/rig-libraries
Absolutely. As is often the case in many hardware synth and FX. Many synth & guitar processors ship with utterly useless factory presets in an attempt to show how "far out" said units can go. They may show of the unit's most extreme capabilities but are often useless in real world productions.

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:40 pm
CapnLockheed wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 11:23 amIf Tonex had better preset handling like say Amplitube that chore would be much less difficult. I realize Amplitube is a modeler but all the other capture/profiling ampsims out there Like Overloud TH-U, ReValver and even the open source NAM have preset browser that are both easier to navigate and organize.
Why not use Tonex captures inside Amplitube and turn them into presets? That’s what I do.
I often do but, IMHO, that's adding another layer, it's a bit fiddly, more of a CPU hit and some profiles crash AT. As far as I'm concerned that's workaround.....not a solution.
I'd like to see them fused together into one well laid out program. Of course, IK will never do that as they can make more selling them seperately. I suppose I should be grateful, that they included a Tonex pedal in AT.
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's

https://soundcloud.com/cristofe-chabot/sets/main

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CapnLockheed wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:11 am
The free profiles are hideous. I don’t know why they even bother including those. They should take samples from the rig profiles they sell, which are actually quite good—BHS and Choptones are good starting places. They let you try out any of them for free (I think it’s 24 hours). Check 'em out: https://www.overloud.com/rig-libraries
Absolutely. As is often the case in many hardware synth and FX. Many synth & guitar processors ship with utterly useless factory presets in an attempt to show how "far out" said units can go. They may show of the unit's most extreme capabilities but are often useless in real world productions.

zerocrossing wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 9:40 pm
CapnLockheed wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 11:23 amIf Tonex had better preset handling like say Amplitube that chore would be much less difficult. I realize Amplitube is a modeler but all the other capture/profiling ampsims out there Like Overloud TH-U, ReValver and even the open source NAM have preset browser that are both easier to navigate and organize.
Why not use Tonex captures inside Amplitube and turn them into presets? That’s what I do.
I often do but, IMHO, that's adding another layer, it's a bit fiddly, more of a CPU hit and some profiles crash AT. As far as I'm concerned that's workaround.....not a solution.
I'd like to see them fused together into one well laid out program. Of course, IK will never do that as they can make more selling them seperately. I suppose I should be grateful, that they included a Tonex pedal in AT.
Huh. I’ve never made a profile (I don’t even own a true amp anymore), but I have Tonex Max and I’ve downloaded a lot of profiles from the library and I’ve never once had any of them crash Amplitube. In fact, the only thing I actually use the Tonex Plugin for is auditioning and downloading stuff from Tone.net. Using Tonex inside of Amplitube is crucial, because you can load a Klon capture in front of a Deluxe capture and add some effects and you’re off.

My only actual complaint is that the reverbs inside Amplitube seem crazy. Any other reverb and a 20-30% blend could be fine, but with Amplitube, it seems like if you go above 5%, it’s swamped with reverb. Who thought that was OK?
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2024 6:08 pm Using Tonex inside of Amplitube is crucial, because you can load a Klon capture in front of a Deluxe capture and add some effects and you’re off.
And I'm off to install AmpliTube...

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The Noodlist wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 7:40 am Neural DSP Nano Cortex £499
ImageThoughts?

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Unlike Nano Cortex and Profiler Player, Tonex offers nearly comprehensive on-board editing of its effects. Ironically (and sadly), Tonex offers the fewest effects of the three.

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Uncle E wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2024 7:00 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2024 6:08 pm Using Tonex inside of Amplitube is crucial, because you can load a Klon capture in front of a Deluxe capture and add some effects and you’re off.
And I'm off to install AmpliTube...
Check out today's update AmpliTube 5 X which offers enhanced TONEX integration and more, you might like it a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10YOdPbtlgc

There's also something interesting that might be related to your other comment in that video...

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I've been using TONEX because separate AMP/CAB states were not possible in AmpliTube. So this is definitely a welcome change.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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This is the part I thought Uncle E might be happy about (but might already know :D )
CleanShot 2024-10-01 at 18.10.31@2x.png
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Thanks! Downloading now! I’m currently capturing a Mesa/Boogie Mark III and many of the captures sound indistinguishable from the real amp.

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Uncle E wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2024 8:58 pm Thanks! Downloading now! I’m currently capturing a Mesa/Boogie Mark III and many of the captures sound indistinguishable from the real amp.
You'll enjoy the upcoming TONEX update too, I think, judging by something in that screenshot :wink:

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