Plugin instruments are SO HOT - how do you handle it?
- KVRAF
- 1637 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland
Hornet VU meter : https://www.hornetplugins.com/hornet-vu ... -released/Raddler1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:19 pm Might have been mentioned in this thread already, but does anyone know of a plugin that can be inserted first on an instrument track and be able to listen to the incoming signal and then output a desired level set by me. Diva, for example. Some patches are hot and some are not. Let's say I want a constant -12 DB at all times, is there a plugin that can do that? I'm not interested in plugins for pre/post auto gain staging like, I just want a single, one instance plugin, that will listen and output a specific level.
The loudness war is over, loudness has won
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- KVRist
- 429 posts since 17 Mar, 2012 from Montreal
Thanks. I was looking at that but there's no demo. So you're saying it can accomplish what I'm looking for? Listen and set an output level?dionenoid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:13 amHornet VU meter : https://www.hornetplugins.com/hornet-vu ... -released/Raddler1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:19 pm Might have been mentioned in this thread already, but does anyone know of a plugin that can be inserted first on an instrument track and be able to listen to the incoming signal and then output a desired level set by me. Diva, for example. Some patches are hot and some are not. Let's say I want a constant -12 DB at all times, is there a plugin that can do that? I'm not interested in plugins for pre/post auto gain staging like, I just want a single, one instance plugin, that will listen and output a specific level.
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- KVRian
- 755 posts since 24 Nov, 2023
But that's exactly what you are asking for, you want it to "listen" to your track and change the volume up and down, by definition that will change the dynamics, how could it not?Raddler1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:47 am
I wasn't thinking along the lines of limiters or compressors. I don't want the signal affected by dynamics in any way. I'm surprised in 2024 it's so hard to find something that can simply listen and either turn up or turn down the volume to a desired level in real time.
If the signal is to loud you want to have it turn it down, if it's to quiet you want it to turn it up
That will 100% absolutely change the dynamics, and is exactly what a compressor does
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- KVRist
- 429 posts since 17 Mar, 2012 from Montreal
I understand what you are saying, but I guess what I meant is that I don't want the signal to ever be brickwall limited or squashed in any way. There's sometimes large fluctuations in volume out of softsynths, so I don't want drastic reactions from a compressor. If that makes sense.IvyBirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:18 amBut that's exactly what you are asking for, you want it to "listen" to your track and change the volume up and down, by definition that will change the dynamics, how could it not?Raddler1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:47 am
I wasn't thinking along the lines of limiters or compressors. I don't want the signal affected by dynamics in any way. I'm surprised in 2024 it's so hard to find something that can simply listen and either turn up or turn down the volume to a desired level in real time.
If the signal is to loud you want to have it turn it down, if it's to quiet you want it to turn it up
That will 100% absolutely change the dynamics, and is exactly what a compressor does
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- KVRian
- 755 posts since 24 Nov, 2023
That's what a compressor does. You can set the ratio, the threshold, the attack and the release. It doesn't have to be drasticRaddler1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:32 amI understand what you are saying, but I guess what I meant is that I don't want the signal to ever be brickwall limited or squashed in any way. There's sometimes large fluctuations in volume out of softsynths, so I don't want drastic reactions from a compressor. If that makes sense.IvyBirds wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:18 amBut that's exactly what you are asking for, you want it to "listen" to your track and change the volume up and down, by definition that will change the dynamics, how could it not?Raddler1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:47 am
I wasn't thinking along the lines of limiters or compressors. I don't want the signal affected by dynamics in any way. I'm surprised in 2024 it's so hard to find something that can simply listen and either turn up or turn down the volume to a desired level in real time.
If the signal is to loud you want to have it turn it down, if it's to quiet you want it to turn it up
That will 100% absolutely change the dynamics, and is exactly what a compressor does
But if you never want the volume to exceed a certain value the only choice the plugin would have is to reduce the volume, if you slam that input hard it will have no other option than to have a drastic reaction
Proper gain staging is important as is proper sound design and playing styles
Beyond all that however recording in 32bit floating point audio is really your friend here. With 32 but floating point audio it is extremely hard to get clipping or distortion. Some would say it's impossible but nothing is impossible, so I will just say it's extremely difficult even if you wanted to
The advantage to that is once everything gets recorded to audio files, as you then mix the track you can adjust the audio for whatever the peak audio level is to whatever volume you want the rest of the dynamics won't change at all
Most DAWs support this
- KVRAF
- 1637 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland
Yeah either that, Autogain or LU meter. They have an 'automatic' setting which keeps your signal at a certain level.Raddler1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:35 amThanks. I was looking at that but there's no demo. So you're saying it can accomplish what I'm looking for? Listen and set an output level?dionenoid wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:13 amHornet VU meter : https://www.hornetplugins.com/hornet-vu ... -released/Raddler1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 7:19 pm Might have been mentioned in this thread already, but does anyone know of a plugin that can be inserted first on an instrument track and be able to listen to the incoming signal and then output a desired level set by me. Diva, for example. Some patches are hot and some are not. Let's say I want a constant -12 DB at all times, is there a plugin that can do that? I'm not interested in plugins for pre/post auto gain staging like, I just want a single, one instance plugin, that will listen and output a specific level.
I don't know about Autogain, but have (old) versions of both VU and LU meter. It's not always ideal, as they need time to react and when you set them to react fast, it will keep changing volume...
The loudness war is over, loudness has won
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- KVRian
- 1132 posts since 27 Apr, 2016
Allow me to clear this up. Firstly please do not expect or use automated bottom wiping machines that fall into same class as a suggested auto gain plug. Give up now if you need that.
Whatever your first sound source is in a new track, drums, synth etc. Just peak that at about -18 to -12dBFS. on your stereo master bus it is not critical where the actual peak is. Leave channel fader at 0.
Do this (peak between -18/-12dBFS) on stereo out by turning down the source itself such as synth output vol, virtual drum machine output vol, sampler output vol etc.
Then forget any other type of meters and produce your track. Never think about this ever again for the rest of your music production life.
Whatever your first sound source is in a new track, drums, synth etc. Just peak that at about -18 to -12dBFS. on your stereo master bus it is not critical where the actual peak is. Leave channel fader at 0.
Do this (peak between -18/-12dBFS) on stereo out by turning down the source itself such as synth output vol, virtual drum machine output vol, sampler output vol etc.
Then forget any other type of meters and produce your track. Never think about this ever again for the rest of your music production life.
- KVRAF
- 2906 posts since 20 Apr, 2005
This is true to an extent but it depends sometimes on what you are running the synth into. Some FX do want a signal to be in a certain range.EvilDragon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:12 am I just reduce the track output level on the track where the instrument is. Meters aren't hitting the red then. And then again, with 64-bit FP precision you don't have to really care about clipping when the sound is created in digital domain - nothing actually gets clipped.
What's true is it can be a pita to try to adjust synth master output levels.
I also start with the track level - this is always quite quick to set in Bitwig it's usually close by. But this is mainly so I can quickly set sounds at a good relative level.
Bitwig has a great helper of volume bars on the output of every plug in in the FX chain. If I see these are getting too hot I'll turn down the volume between plug ins, or sometimes in the plug in i.e. some channel strips have good control on the output.
To turn down the volume Bitwig has a great utility plug in called Tool which has volume and gain. I have some presets with -18, -12, -6 and can add these very quickly.
My end goal will be no overly hot inputs to FX plug ins, with the volume control at a reasonable level somewhere like -12 to -18.
In Bitwig I also generally don't automate the channels volume control but instead place a Tool FX at the end of a chain. I then automate the volume/gain of Tool. This means I can the use the volume fader to raise and lower the whole track including any volume automation very easily
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- KVRist
- 429 posts since 17 Mar, 2012 from Montreal
The main reason I was asking the question wasn't so much for proper gain staging prior to working on a mix. The reason was that I have several amp/saturation plugins that work best when they are hit at roughly -12'ish DB. Problem is, as I scroll through presets on my softsynths, the levels are always changing and so they hit the FX plugins either too soft or too hard. I'm forever ajusting the volume knob on my softsynths to compensate. I thought a solution may be to put a plugin prior to the FX plugins that could constantly output at the same level as I auditioned through the different synth presets.
Last edited by Raddler1 on Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRian
- 1112 posts since 3 Jan, 2020
MAutoVolume could do what you want. It doesn't change the volume quickly like a compressor or limiter, so you might have to play for moment after switching the preset before you'll hear it at the optimal volume. I think it tries to get the audio close to -10dB, so you'll have to adjust the output gain to your preferred level.
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- KVRist
- 429 posts since 17 Mar, 2012 from Montreal
Yes! Thats exactly what I was looking for. I'll give it a try. Thank youHeld wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 1:52 pm MAutoVolume could do what you want. It doesn't change the volume quickly like a compressor or limiter, so you might have to play for moment after switching the preset before you'll hear it at the optimal volume. I think it tries to get the audio close to -10dB, so you'll have to adjust the output gain to your preferred level.
- KVRAF
- 1637 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland
Hornet VU MK4 costs 0,90 atm. That's 90 cents. Hornet LU MK2 also costs 0,90.Raddler1 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 4:26 pmYes! Thats exactly what I was looking for. I'll give it a try. Thank youHeld wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 1:52 pm MAutoVolume could do what you want. It doesn't change the volume quickly like a compressor or limiter, so you might have to play for moment after switching the preset before you'll hear it at the optimal volume. I think it tries to get the audio close to -10dB, so you'll have to adjust the output gain to your preferred level.
MAutoVolume (which is total overkill for your purpose btw) costs 49 bucks.
The loudness war is over, loudness has won