Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[stamp]

Related, but not the same: maybe let the device panel be stretched vertically allowing the device chain to reflow over into another line? Could help with the endless horizontal scrolling.

I would allready be happy if the device lane could remember its position per track.

[_leras]

I would allready be happy if the device lane could remember its position per track.

That would be great.

To me that would be better than the lanes wrapping.

[_leras]

I hope the team have seen the serum 2 release. It seems to have quite a few things people want in the piano roll!

[coroknight]

I hope the team have seen the serum 2 release. It seems to have quite a few things people want in the piano roll!

What does it do that's so much better other than being able to select a scale and seeing the keys highlighted?

[xbitz]

In Serum2, it wasn’t the piano roll that got bigger, but the two parallel effect buses, plus the master and the container devices — this way even Studio One can now use this kind of effect chain building (with the fx only Serum2Fx), which I had been missing from it until now.

So now Studio One, with its Scratch Pad and Clip Launcher, decitated mastering pane etc. has become the golden middle-ground DAW (and now you only need to switch DAWs if you have some specific needs in a particular direction.)— a bit of everything, but still enough of each ... I'm curious to see what Bitwig will bring next... Whether it wants to narrow its target audience and serve it better, or expand it.

Based on the updates so far, it seems like they want to do both at the same time — and also reinvent the DAW architecture. I don’t know how long they can keep that up, where essentially no one ends up getting enough

[muzicxs]

Based on the updates so far, it seems like they want to do both at the same time — and also reinvent the DAW architecture. I don’t know how long they can keep that up, where essentially no one ends up getting enough

Why do some people feel the need to express themselves in extremes? Just tell everyone that you are not getting enough.

Can Bitwig be improved? Definitely! Just as much as Studio One, Live, Cubase, etc. Where is this "how much they can keep that up" based on? Any data you can share with us?

[The Mantra]

Based on the updates so far, it seems like they want to do both at the same time — and also reinvent the DAW architecture. I don’t know how long they can keep that up, where essentially no one ends up getting enough

Why do some people feel the need to express themselves in extremes? Just tell everyone that you are not getting enough.

Can Bitwig be improved? Definitely! Just as much as Studio One, Live, Cubase, etc. Where is this "how much they can keep that up" based on? Any data you can share with us?

I didn't find anything in his post extreme. My takeaway was that he was saying Bitwig may be stretching itself too thin If they are trying to cater to the niche bitwig audience and also expand their appeal to other daw users while also trying to rewrite large parts of the back end of the software.

Many people have either complained or speculated that the various back end updates like rewriting the audio engine, updating the UI for GPU use, clap support Etc have come at the cost of some of the workflow updates that people have been asking for. That has been a valid complaint so far but I suspect that will change a bit with the teased next update that will focus more on front end daw issues instead of plus effects.

[muzicxs]

I didn't find anything in his post extreme.

I should have used the word "absolutes" instead of "extremes". The problem with absolutes is that they make the argument incredibly weak. You just need one person with a different stance and the argument no longer holds. And many of them have no data to back their claims, so the likelihood of it just being made up to fit their narrative is high.

My takeaway was that he was saying Bitwig may be stretching itself too thin If they are trying to cater to the niche bitwig audience and also expand their appeal to other daw users while also trying to rewrite large parts of the back end of the software.

Many people have either complained or speculated that the various back end updates like rewriting the audio engine, updating the UI for GPU use, clap support Etc have come at the cost of some of the workflow updates that people have been asking for. That has been a valid complaint so far but I suspect that will change a bit with the teased next update that will focus more on front end daw issues instead of plus effects.

I'm personally very happy they invest time and money on reducing their tech debt and investing into the future of audio production (CLAP). The last thing I wish for is another Cubase. And yes, I absolutely have no problem paying for these updates.

It also helps that I don't have any expectations towards the next release. It'll come whenever it is done. I'm just curious what they'll come up with.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Here is my personal view of it: I don't think "backend costs" are the reason for a lack of fundamental workflow improvements. I see more a lag of focus and interest here... They might read user wishes from time to time, but they do not communicate at all, which I think is creating a bubble. So they might not even realize what is missing or could be improved, for example, from the perspective of a mostly-composer.

I see most of the internal fx and synth stuff as rudimentary. Drum machines or the compressor+ for example, though are surely very fine, well thought devices, barely adding anything DAW related to the table in the end. Only because Ableton or Presonus are doing this, too, doesn't mean you should follow this route, even less if your developer team is much smaller.

What is a DAW about? I think the name already says it, providing DAW functionality, but not being a jack of all trades device. Since, you know, there are tons over tons of audio generators and processors out there, even with CLAP and per-voice-modulation-support. Instead CLAP and per-voice-modulation could be supported even more, providing code examples, tuts etc.

Also by adding a lot of Bitwig-only audio gens and fxs they are constantly increasing the complexity of the code base. The bigger the complexity is, the slower the development will be, until companies stop to progress at all. So the goal also should be like:

For everything we add, which stuff could be actually removed or could be replaced by a better functionality? That would be a sane, future proof principle. I would even say this is more fun to develop, too. This is much more tough and requires deep knowledge of the dependencies.

But this does not seem to be the principle for the Bitwig team. I believe they simply adding stuff which they are currently interested in, and then also some backlog of feature requests. I am not saying that their additions aren't very nice, they are certainly. But also they are rudimentary very often, and watching this is kind of sad, wasting this very smart developer brain power in some way. It's fully their decision though, and also a lot of people even agree with this path. I only wish there was a public roadmap somehow.

Examples of good decisions:
- Support CLAP even more, encourage 3rd party to implement per-voice-modulation
- Thinking about rhythm and instrument context. How can make rhythm and track interaction more accessible in the UX?
- Improve piano roll and arranger, not only adding stuff which other vendors are doing, but looking at it from a general-purpose perspective. Also removing obsolete stuff, improving/simplifying existing workflow
- Dropping VST2 support at some point, so code complexity can be reduced

Examples of bad decisions:
- Adding AU support. AU is only for Logic and iOS, both are not a topic for Bitwig. AU support does not bring a single new functionality for the user.
- Adding reverb+. You will never be able to compete with specialized fx vendors. Who needs another quite-ok reverb?

[coroknight]

I think they have a separate team working on built-in devices which would explain why we’ve been getting so many new ones. It’s important to remember a huge chunk of users are noobs and preset junkies, so even though we might see a new device as useless it’s important to remember that built-in devices are a selling point, and a foundation they can use to build presets. That’s also why so many third-party plugins have DAW-like features like the piano roll in Serum 2. It’s so they can build more advanced presets.

Meanwhile it seems like the core team has been pre-occupied with engine upgrades which would explain why we haven’t seem too many core features.

I don’t think the team lives in a bubble. If you were working at Bitwig wouldn’t you be curious what people are saying on forums? I think they just don’t participate in discussions because frankly users are crazy people, and there’s too much risk of saying something they’d regret. People are very quick to interpret anything devs say as a promise.

As a software engineer myself I’m incredibly thankful for the people who interact with customers so that I don’t have to and I totally understand why they might think it’s a waste of time.

They probably don’t release a roadmap because the DAW market is extremely competitive. This is true of other DAWs too.

[The Mantra]

I don't think the devs live in a bubble. I actually think they lurk the forums from time to time. They all but acknowledged the complaints about the plus effects by hinting for the first time what the next update would be. They also added msegs Which was a big request around here.

I think all of the pettiness that goes on around the forums Makes it harder for them to lurk And mine for information.

I also think they were aware of the cost of the back end updates from the beginning but decided that it was necessary for whatever they have planned long term in their road map. What if the gpu update was necessary to get out of the way before they tackle adding customizable user interfaces for grid devices?

[questionaire]

It look likes Bitwig Forum is becoming a more positive place where discussions are being held in a respectfull way! Or is that only temporarily......hope not then i will come back more often

[_leras]

I hope the team have seen the serum 2 release. It seems to have quite a few things people want in the piano roll!

What does it do that's so much better other than being able to select a scale and seeing the keys highlighted?

Just it has some features Bitwig is missing and Bitwig is a DAW not a synth. I trust Bitwig will do a great 6.0 release with this type of feature in piano roll and hopefully some groove stuff.

[pdxindy]

Just it has some features Bitwig is missing and Bitwig is a DAW not a synth. I trust Bitwig will do a great 6.0 release with this type of feature in piano roll and hopefully some groove stuff.

What specifically do you want to see? (I don't know what's in Serum 2)

[EggplantS07]

When will Bitwig 6 be released?