Roland ZENOLOGY Pro on sale on Roland's website!

[N 4 LIFE]

Dawn 2 Dusk PR-C 091 on roland JV 1080 in the Roland cloud. Same preset number on the XV 5080 in the cloud.

Cool. Thanks for verifying Dawn 2 Dusk is in there.

I still don't understand the effects in Zenology vs. the individual VST. I don't get how it will sound the same.

it won't sound the same because zenology does not have the fx built in and TURNED ON in each patch like the xv 5080 and the jv do. to activate the mfx in the zenology versions of these patches, you have to turn on the reverb knob up next to the level knob as far as I can tell. the individual vst versions of each patch have the reverb already set and activated along with the other fx such as chorus and delay. the other thing i noticed after just testing "dawn 2 dusk" zen version vs jv 1080 version is that annoying bump in the high mids that makes me hate zenology. also, the bottom end and the decay sound different to me on the two versions of the same patch. maybe its just me. i don't like the overall tone of zenology in comparison to many of their other products. the stereo field sounds narrower to me as well as a host of other things.

[cryophonik]

After researching this a bit more and revisiting my Integra-7 for a few hours this evening, two things are clear to me:

1) Roland Cloud is an overpriced sh!tshow that will never get my money, and

2) I'm keeping the Integra-7. I let it get out-of-sight/out-of-mind, but now that I'm using again I've reminded myself of exactly why I bought it in the first place. There's nothing else like it.

[telecharge]

1) Roland Cloud is an overpriced sh!tshow that will never get my money, and

Are you talking about the subscriptions?

2) I'm keeping the Integra-7. I let it get out-of-sight/out-of-mind, but now that I'm using again I've reminded myself of exactly why I bought it in the first place. There's nothing else like it.

That's awesome. I wasn't familiar, so I looked it up. It came out in 2012 priced around $2000 and it's still the same price? Did you get a good deal?

[IvyBirds]

After researching this a bit more and revisiting my Integra-7 for a few hours this evening, two things are clear to me:

1) Roland Cloud is an overpriced sh!tshow that will never get my money, and

2) I'm keeping the Integra-7. I let it get out-of-sight/out-of-mind, but now that I'm using again I've reminded myself of exactly why I bought it in the first place. There's nothing else like it.

The only piece of hardware I regret selling is my Integra 7. The Supernatural Synth Engine is better than the VA inside of Zenology and the PCM Engine which is the old early 2000s Fantom engine is simply awesome and has all the classic Eric Persing samples

[jdoo]

What I counted up today...

182  PRST_A Factory Presets
482  PRST_B AX Collection
128  PRST_C Synth Legend (seeing a lot of tones from my FA06 in these) 
                    Spoiler alert:  What i tested out sound identical to what spits out of my FA and XA synths...
1109 PRST_D Basic Synth ( same as above.  Overlap to my hardware, and same timbres/sounds)
 896 PRST_E XV Collection
 838 PRST_F Essential
   75 PRST_G Essential Drum
=======
3710 or so from the basic Zenology Pro

these addition tones are now included in the Zenology Pro.

  65 PRST_H Stellar Black
  68 PRST_I Sun Gate
  63 PRST_J Nebulous Forms
  66 PRST_K Volatile Memories
274 PRST_L Essential 2
========
536 additions to what was in the original Zenology package

Of the tones above.... these were categorized ( mixed in from above)

 110  Drums
   26  Percussion

There are more drum kits above.. i heard em.. but they didnt pop up when I categorized.

So in total - there are

4107 Tones
 109 Drum Kits
4246 all together.... but i was quickly counting, didnt confirm any of this

So the Zenology Pro stuff are created by a PCM engine, VA engine, PCM Sync, Supersaw, Noise, and some other waveforms/ bits and pieces.  It is a huge collection of traditional Roland timbres.  I imagine if someone is looking for stuff that is missing, or comes up short...  they will find it.  None of the effects shortcomings mentioned earlier in the collection do i notice..  but it sounds like some folks are hitting the wall with that. 100% - I respect and don't doubt those opinions.  Just not noticed here.  For $100...  I'll say it again.  This is quite a deal.  For replacing my Roland hardware synths...  this is a big win for me.

I borrowed with pride, some of the info/counts above from some of the good folks at Roland Clans.

[telecharge]

Thanks for the info, jdoo.

If there are any Zenbeats users here, you might find this interesting - https://support.roland.com/hc/en-us/art ... nbeats-iOS

[beely]

it won't sound the same because zenology does not have the fx built in and TURNED ON in each patch like the xv 5080 and the jv do.

Yep - here's an example of one of my favourite XV-5080 patches, played in both Zenology, and the XV-5080 plugin.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ws98u9a8 ... kbksa&dl=0

The 5080 has three separate FX blocks - the MFX block (which in this patch, is doing a pan delay), then a Chorus block, and a Reverb block. The pan delay is also feeding into the Chorus and Reverb blocks.

Zenology can't recreate this - it has an MFX block doing the pan delay, and it has the Reverb block, and that's it for FX. So you're completely missing the Chorus which nicely thickens up the patch, resulting in the Zenology version feeling static, and a bit thin and lifeless.

This is kind of the overall feeling when playing the XV-5080 stuff in Zenology - it's fine enough if you don't have the XV-5080, but if you like those patches, the Zenology versions are generally a bit lesser than they are in the actual XV-5080. (It depends on the exact patch-by-patch FX setup, of course).

This is why for those sounds, I prefer to use the XV-5080 plugin over Zenology.

[trusampler]

As an owner of the Fantom. ZENOLOGY Pro is the Fantom. Useful in a lot of modern productions. It’s Roland’s take on a modern rompler. For $99 I think it’s worth it. Especially if you’re into the expansions. I have better quality rompler sounds in Yamahas Montage M , but I do like many of the Roland sounds as well.

[N 4 LIFE]

it won't sound the same because zenology does not have the fx built in and TURNED ON in each patch like the xv 5080 and the jv do.

Yep - here's an example of one of my favourite XV-5080 patches, played in both Zenology, and the XV-5080 plugin.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ws98u9a8 ... kbksa&dl=0

The 5080 has three separate FX blocks - the MFX block (which in this patch, is doing a pan delay), then a Chorus block, and a Reverb block. The pan delay is also feeding into the Chorus and Reverb blocks.

Zenology can't recreate this - it has an MFX block doing the pan delay, and it has the Reverb block, and that's it for FX. So you're completely missing the Chorus which nicely thickens up the patch, resulting in the Zenology version feeling static, and a bit thin and lifeless.

This is kind of the overall feeling when playing the XV-5080 stuff in Zenology - it's fine enough if you don't have the XV-5080, but if you like those patches, the Zenology versions are generally a bit lesser than they are in the actual XV-5080. (It depends on the exact patch-by-patch FX setup, of course).

This is why for those sounds, I prefer to use the XV-5080 plugin over Zenology.

Thank you so much for confirming this. And shame on you Roland. For those of us that have relied on these products for decades, it seems you can't fool our ears. When I found out about Zenology, I was really excited. The disappointments came in a wave within the first couple of days. A lot of creedence back to the hardware vs software debate as of course the hardware was carefully created by people who care about sound. Three years in, it is great to hear from folks like you who can show the reasons why Zenology can't compete with the old Roland boxes. When you talk about overall feeling, that's what music is....if your tools don't create the feeling they are supposed to based on your past experience, they fail. That appears to be the case here.

I'm not sure who is responsible for this horrible failure, but in the past when I worked for synth companies, it was always the bean counters and the marketing dept. Why they couldn't do what Korg did and just GIVE US THE PRESETS sounding right at the very beginning is beyond me. Maybe this is why after they got busted for the sounds being so lousy someone piped up and said "But we can create a separate thing called Zenology FX and sell it as an add-on and no one will be the wiser."

For those of us still producing and trying to make a living, this type of stuff is a giant pain in the ass. To me it is the difference between a fresh peach pie made in the South on a Georgia farm and Pringles-the synthetic potato chip.

[cryophonik]

1) Roland Cloud is an overpriced sh!tshow that will never get my money, and

Are you talking about the subscriptions?

Mostly, but I’m also not impressed by anything Roland makes anymore, software or hardware (except the Integra-7, obviously).

2) I'm keeping the Integra-7. I let it get out-of-sight/out-of-mind, but now that I'm using again I've reminded myself of exactly why I bought it in the first place. There's nothing else like it.

That's awesome. I wasn't familiar, so I looked it up. It came out in 2012 priced around $2000 and it's still the same price? Did you get a good deal?

I bought mine brand new, so no good deal. I rarely buy new synths, but after looking for a good deal on a used one for a month or so, every one I found was in pretty poor condition and the sellers still wanted 3/4 the price of a new one, so I said screw it and bought a new one.

[IvyBirds]

I'm not sure who is responsible for this horrible failure,

Regarding the two effects blocks over three, I have a pretty strong theory

I was a long time owner and user of the JV and XV line, owned an original Fantom and then owned an Integra 7 for a long time which in it's PCM engine is the original Fantom engine from the early 2000s

When the JV and XV plugins came out for the Roland Cloud it is just recycling the Fantom Engine as implemented in the Integra 7

Then when Zenology came out they recycled the engine again but were stuck because they needed to add new filter models for the VA parts and expansions, so rather than just recode everything they just stole one of the effects blocks and the filters are in the code just inserted effects

There is really no other explanation for it

[abi]

I really don´t undestand the fuss about the fx blocks in a virtual synth, let alone its reverb section, as you´re going to use it in a DAW with hopefully better quality effects anyway. Sure, if you want the original jv vibe, the best bet is to get the keyboards srx and thats it (cheaper than jv1080 and xv but with all sample content). Zenology to me is as modern xv, with added VA, PCM Sync and Supersaw oscillator modes. Not a replacement of the old gear (although it uses the same sample base).

[osofaux]

I would buy this in a heartbeat if RCM weren't such an atrocity and Roland didn't keep their stuff on such a short, tight leash.

[braincandy]

I would buy this in a heartbeat if RCM weren't such an atrocity and Roland didn't keep their stuff on such a short, tight leash.

That and the nickel-and-diming for any expansions. Korg provides all of the expansions for the Triton/M1/Wavestation at no extra cost.

[IvyBirds]

I really don´t undestand the fuss about the fx blocks in a virtual synth, let alone its reverb section, as you´re going to use it in a DAW with hopefully better quality effects anyway. Sure, if you want the original jv vibe, the best bet is to get the keyboards srx and thats it (cheaper than jv1080 and xv but with all sample content). Zenology to me is as modern xv, with added VA, PCM Sync and Supersaw oscillator modes. Not a replacement of the old gear (although it uses the same sample base).

I am a giant fan of Eric Persing's sample library he made for Roland starting with the D50 and then reaching it's pinnacle in the JV/JD/XV line up. There was perhaps no better engineer and sound designer in the 1990s (and even today with Omnisphere) for Rompler tones than Eric.

The challenge is for reasons only known to Roland they included the bulk of those samples which they have been rehashing for 30+ years in the Roland Cloud but you have no way to use them them (without hacking the BIN files) to use them all the way you could back in the 1990s

The XV and JV plugins only have the factory library, and all of the content from the SRX expansion ROMS is available but as separate instruments. In the 1990s you would load those into your XV5080. So if you wanted to make a patch that used a sample from a string machine from the Keys of the 60&70s Card, a sample of an actual violin from the Orchestral Card, a sample of a cello from the Strings SRX cards and a sample of a string ensemble from the factory library you can't do so in the Roland Cloud even when all of those samples are in various products and were designed to work together

Those samples sound amazing but they were made in the 1990s and are small and short. As such many of the presets both factory and ones you make yourself sound best when you use the effects blocks to thicken them up with things like chorus and when you use reverb as basically an extra envelope for sustain and release that smears the obvious loop points in the short samples

The good news is that all of that content is available in Zenology, the bad news is that it lacks the effects blocks the samples were designed and made to be used with

So sadly if you want the classic Eric Persing samples (which I very much do) and you want to make Eric's patches the way he intended when he made the 4 partial S&S engine used in Zenology which dates to the early 1990s JV line you can't do so and that sucks