Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[_leras]

So yet again people are extra critical of the underdog even though they need the extra revenue the most.

Sorry to say Saint Bitwig still needs capital to keep the lights on and people paid without shrinking until they go out of business.

Bitwig certainly seems to have attracted some of the most highly strung DAW users.

Personally I want them to be popular and make good money so their staff can be comfortable and focus on making Bitwig even better.

[coroknight]

We know the next update is 6.0 so there’s no need for a 5.3 thread.

[machinesworking]

My only complaint is the audio interface doesn't have enough inputs or ADAT to be useful to me. Plus I really wish they would develop an MPC/Force, Maschine, Push 3 standalone Killer. They already work in Linux, no optimization needed there. They already have started touch screen interface integration. They have a whole ecosystem of possible portable plugins with CLAP since the code is open to such things.

I fully understand the R&D and scope are probably too much for a small company like Bitwig but one can dream.

[edit] I often wonder why some developer hasn't used a Surface or iPad as a starting point to make a hardware enclosure that "wraps" some buttons and knobs along with an audio interface around the screen. These days the chips are more an adequate in mobile touch screen devices.

[SLiC]

It makes me wonder how many Bitwig users their actually are, I am amazed there hasn't even been a 3rd party Bigwig Controller (Novation, Akai etc). I know a lot of controllers are generic and Moss writes great scrips, but still surprised that after all this time their is nothing even 'branded' as a Bitwig controller.

[machinesworking]

It makes me wonder how many Bitwig users their actually are, I am amazed there hasn't even been a 3rd party Bigwig Controller (Novation, Akai etc). I know a lot of controllers are generic and Moss writes great scrips, but still surprised that after all this time their is nothing even 'branded' as a Bitwig controller.

I'm guessing in the neighborhood of Digital Perfomer, Samplitude and now Cakewalk. Probably a little more users than those DAWs, but not by a lot.

As a user of Digital Performer this question made me think about how many users it takes to keep a company alive. Likely around 10-15 thousand users can keep a company afloat. There are 24 people in their About Us profile on their site, I would guess at least 6 more than that work there. So 30 people at roughly 70k a year is 2.1 million. They likely do not pay everyone 70K but you get an estimate of what it costs to run a company like this. At a 2.1 million a year overhead they need to make around $140 off 15 thousand end users.

Compare all this to a company like Ableton that had 2 million verified users in around 2012.

It's why hardware becomes a thing. Once the R&D is done it's only a driver that needs updating. It also makes you realize how much easier it is for companies like Apple with Logic or Ableton have it compared to the rest with the massive user bases they have.

[Cyoon]

nm

[SLiC]

It makes me wonder how many Bitwig users their actually are, I am amazed there hasn't even been a 3rd party Bigwig Controller (Novation, Akai etc). I know a lot of controllers are generic and Moss writes great scrips, but still surprised that after all this time their is nothing even 'branded' as a Bitwig controller.

I'm guessing in the neighborhood of Digital Perfomer, Samplitude and now Cakewalk. Probably a little more users than those DAWs, but not by a lot.

As a user of Digital Performer this question made me think about how many users it takes to keep a company alive. Likely around 10-15 thousand users can keep a company afloat. There are 24 people in their About Us profile on their site, I would guess at least 6 more than that work there. So 30 people at roughly 70k a year is 2.1 million. They likely do not pay everyone 70K but you get an estimate of what it costs to run a company like this. At a 2.1 million a year overhead they need to make around $140 off 15 thousand end users.

Compare all this to a company like Ableton that had 2 million verified users in around 2012.

It's why hardware becomes a thing. Once the R&D is done it's only a driver that needs updating. It also makes you realize how much easier it is for companies like Apple with Logic or Ableton have it compared to the rest with the massive user bases they have.

Interesting post. Its a different market nowadays,. I don't envy anyone trying to make it was a DAW when there are so many great cheap and even free options out there. I have followed the journey of DAWS from midi only Pro24 to the first VST Cubase (mind-blowing) to Live (4, when they added midi)- Live offered something truly unique at the time (probably whey it grew so rapidly), I am not sure anything else has since then, just incremental improvements or slightly different ways of doing the same thing. Maybe Bitwig V6 will be the next big thing...but I wouldn't bet against that being Ableton either, they seem to be accelerating in development and Bitwig seem to be slowing (and I have been a Bitwig user since V1)

[] Peter:H []

It makes me wonder how many Bitwig users their actually are, I am amazed there hasn't even been a 3rd party Bigwig Controller (Novation, Akai etc). I know a lot of controllers are generic and Moss writes great scrips, but still surprised that after all this time their is nothing even 'branded' as a Bitwig controller.

I'm guessing in the neighborhood of Digital Perfomer, Samplitude and now Cakewalk. Probably a little more users than those DAWs, but not by a lot.

As a user of Digital Performer this question made me think about how many users it takes to keep a company alive. Likely around 10-15 thousand users can keep a company afloat. There are 24 people in their About Us profile on their site, I would guess at least 6 more than that work there. So 30 people at roughly 70k a year is 2.1 million. They likely do not pay everyone 70K but you get an estimate of what it costs to run a company like this. At a 2.1 million a year overhead they need to make around $140 off 15 thousand end users.

Compare all this to a company like Ableton that had 2 million verified users in around 2012.

It's why hardware becomes a thing. Once the R&D is done it's only a driver that needs updating. It also makes you realize how much easier it is for companies like Apple with Logic or Ableton have it compared to the rest with the massive user bases they have.

Interesting post. Its a different market nowadays,. I don't envy anyone trying to make it was a DAW when there are so many great cheap and even free options out there. I have followed the journey of DAWS from midi only Pro24 to the first VST Cubase (mind-blowing) to Live (4, when they added midi)- Live offered something truly unique at the time (probably whey it grew so rapidly), I am not sure anything else has since then, just incremental improvements or slightly different ways of doing the same thing. Maybe Bitwig V6 will be the next big thing...but I wouldn't bet against that being Ableton either, they seem to be accelerating in development and Bitwig seem to be slowing (and I have been a Bitwig user since V1)

About the slowing down - it's definitly due to
a.) taking care about technical debt (new audio engine, gpu, both good things!) and
b.) dedicating scarce dev/monetary capa to creating hardware.
Especially the hardware thing is finally a - indirect - statement about who their customer focus group is: hardware synth fiddlers ... all the grid journey with it's weird idiosyncrazies pointed already into that direction, but now that they indroduced hardware before V6 was an eye opener for me personally.

[SLiC]

Yup- Bitwig did not really need it's own audio interface, I didn't get that at all.

[questionaire]

agree does not add anything and i can not imagine it will be a succes, it is just a waist of r&d resources

[pdxindy]

hardware synth fiddlers ...

fiddlers use fiddles, not synths...

[pdxindy]

Yup- Bitwig did not really need it's own audio interface, I didn't get that at all.

Bitwig has the tools to work with CV (both in and out) so seems like a logical step to have an audio interface with dc coupled inputs/outputs.

Lots of musicians have bought one or more of the Behringer analog monosynths and they all have patch points. Bitwig + Connect makes it easy to send CV signals to those synths (and lots of others).

[slackhead]

Lots of musicians have bought one or more of the Behringer analog monosynths and they all have patch points. Bitwig + Connect makes it easy to send CV signals to those synths (and lots of others).

The Behringers also have MIDI and USB. What extra does CV provide?

[Greenstorm33]

hardware synth fiddlers ...

fiddlers use fiddles, not synths...

I think the word we're looking for is "twiddler"

[SLiC]

Yup- Bitwig did not really need it's own audio interface, I didn't get that at all.

Bitwig has the tools to work with CV (both in and out) so seems like a logical step to have an audio interface with dc coupled inputs/outputs.

Lots of musicians have bought one or more of the Behringer analog monosynths and they all have patch points. Bitwig + Connect makes it easy to send CV signals to those synths (and lots of others).

I agree, but we have had midi to CV over any ADAT IO for a very long time and there are tons of cheap usb-CV interfaces like CV OCD (USB/Midi to 4CV and 12 Gate for £140), CV OCD also works with any other IO you bare using and as we can't aggregate on Windows just 4 inputs wont be enough for many people. Nice all in one 'travel' IO with CV, but I guess not many travel with a modular.

Its a perfectly good IO, but how many Bitwig users didn't already have an IO (or a modular solution for CV- I know I did) with all this Bitwig 'Orange' its only going to appeal to Bitwig users...and perhaps just a very small % of those users that sre into modular and don't already have a solution for CV.