SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

[Uncle E]

To be honest I'm not hearing anything in that video that I couldn't do in some other synths in my collection.

Indeed. It sounded like someone wished they had a Wavestation.

[wagtunes]

Well, the video aside, I've always loved the sound of the SY 77 and I can't wait for Sway to come out.

Now if only somebody would come out with a TG 33.

[IvyBirds]

Well, the video aside, I've always loved the sound of the SY 77 and I can't wait for Sway to come out.

Now if only somebody would come out with a TG 33.

You should actually be able to use SWAYED rather easily to emulate the TG33 once it allows sample import and take it further than any TG33 has gone before.

The TG33 is just 2 voices of basic sample playback that Yamaha calls AWM which is way more basic than the AWM2 used in SY77 and two voices of 2op sine wave FM with a feedback loop on each modulator. All four voices are playing simultaneously and you use a joystick that uses MIDI to turn the amplitude of each layer up or down

So you would just need to load algo 42 which has 3 sets of 2 modulators. Then assign a CC to the level of each carrier in two of the pairs, and turn the other pair off

Then create two layers of sample playback and assign a CC to their levels

Load whatever samples you want into the sample slots including samples of the TG33 sample library and program the two stacks of two ops to whatever you want

Then use your controller to turn it up and down. You can get controllers with have joysticks, or just use two knobs like an etch a sketch and manipulate the incoming MIDI so it gets translated into two channels with one inverted. There are many tools that can do that

And just like that you have a TG33 emulation using the power of SWAYED

[wagtunes]

Well, the video aside, I've always loved the sound of the SY 77 and I can't wait for Sway to come out.

Now if only somebody would come out with a TG 33.

You should actually be able to use SWAYED rather easily to emulate the TG33 once it allows sample import and take it further than any TG33 has gone before.

The TG33 is just 2 voices of basic sample playback that Yamaha calls AWM which is way more basic than the AWM2 used in SY77 and two voices of 2op sine wave FM with a feedback loop on each modulator. All four voices are playing simultaneously and you use a joystick that uses MIDI to turn the amplitude of each layer up or down

So you would just need to load algo 42 which has 3 sets of 2 modulators. Then assign a CC to the level of each carrier in two of the pairs, and turn the other pair off

Then create two layers of sample playback and assign a CC to their levels

Load whatever samples you want into the sample slots including samples of the TG33 sample library and program the two stacks of two ops to whatever you want

Then use your controller to turn it up and down. You can get controllers with have joysticks, or just use two knobs like an etch a sketch and manipulate the incoming MIDI so it gets translated into two channels with one inverted. There are many tools that can do that

And just like that you have a TG33 emulation using the power of SWAYED

Now THAT is cool.

[cslevine]

Wow... so, technically, it sould be possible to make SY22 too ?

[Uncle E]

Yes, but hopefully Sheaf would point his talents towards the SY99 next. SY22/TG33 plugins wouldn't have a very wide appeal.

[VitaminD]

First things first.. lets get the SY77 emu. There doesn't seem to be an ETA for even that yet?

[Aloysius]

Sheaf 77

[IvyBirds]

Yes, but hopefully Sheaf would point his talents towards the SY99 next. SY22/TG33 plugins wouldn't have a very wide appeal.

Beyond that is the reality that the SY22/TG33 sample libraries which is so important to their sound are Yamaha's IP and would require a license agreement to use them

Of course it's dead simple to make any sampler plugin that can play back multiple samples at the same time behave like an SY22/TG33 you just need to assign CCs to the level/amplitude of each layer

SWAYED will also be able to do rather easily once it supports sample import and will also be able to do the 2op FM parts as I mentioned earlier. SWAYED will also be able to offer way more in the way of FM because you can have two stacks of 2 operators and mimic the SY22, or two stacks of 3, or a stack of three or four and a stack of 2, with different waveforms

Essentially for four point vector synthesis with SWAYED you can have the two sample playback lanes, reproduce any TX81Z, DX11, or other Yamaha 4op patch on another point, and then an SY22 or TG33 patch with additional waveforms on the fourth and you are not limited to crispy the crispy (and rather limited) lowfi samples of the TG33 or SY22. You will be able to use any samples. High quality pristine samples along with high quality FM for this purpose is something I am looking forward to

Also a used SY22 or cheap used Korg Wavestate MK1 would make for a fine controller to play such a beast as their vector joysticks output MIDI CCs. I got my SY22 from FB Marketplace for less than $100

[audiojunkie]

I’m not an FM expert by any means. And I don’t mean any disrespect at all with my question. But…

It appears to me that a person could take an FM synth, a sampler, effects, and whatever else someone could want to add, and layer it all, and get the same results or better.

For example, I could put each instrument on a track of its own, with each track having its own custom effects, and set each track to the same midi channel, and create better sounding and more complicated and dense sounds, with better sound quality. I could even load all of this into a chainer plugin such as Blue Cat Audio’s Patchwork or similar, and save these custom patches for recall elsewhere.

It appears to me that this plugin is for nostalgia purposes—for those who remember and love the SY77. However, everyone admits it doesn’t sound quite the same…..just close.

I admit that I don’t have those fond memories that everyone else has—my synth ownership came later, and I only ever bought a Roland JX-8P, a Roland JV-1010, a Korg X5DR, and an Ensoniq ESQ1, before I realized I could do as well or better with plugins.

I guess what I’m asking is, does the FM on the SY77 have algorithms or sounds that can’t be replicated elsewhere in the plugin world? What besides nostalgia moves a person to the love of the SY77?

Now, I’m quite positive that I’ve probably offended everyone here, which is not my intention, but I also know that many of you are very knowledgeable on this subject—way more than me. So, I’m asking in all seriousness—what is it to you that makes an SY77 plugin so special, other than nostalgia?

[Uncle E]

There’s maybe 5-10% you can’t do with other plugins. Also, there’s thousands of excellent patches available for it, many of which go deeper into FM than most of us would do ourselves.

[anomandaris1]

From what I have read, SY77 and the subsequent FS1r are the most advanced FM synths by Yamaha, more complex than their current flagship, which compensates with better expressive options, so it should have quite good sonic range. The question would be why this over Phase Plant and similar synths that should be able to do more.

[wagtunes]

I’m not an FM expert by any means. And I don’t mean any disrespect at all with my question. But…

It appears to me that a person could take an FM synth, a sampler, effects, and whatever else someone could want to add, and layer it all, and get the same results or better.

For example, I could put each instrument on a track of its own, with each track having its own custom effects, and set each track to the same midi channel, and create better sounding and more complicated and dense sounds, with better sound quality. I could even load all of this into a chainer plugin such as Blue Cat Audio’s Patchwork or similar, and save these custom patches for recall elsewhere.

It appears to me that this plugin is for nostalgia purposes—for those who remember and love the SY77. However, everyone admits it doesn’t sound quite the same…..just close.

I admit that I don’t have those fond memories that everyone else has—my synth ownership came later, and I only ever bought a Roland JX-8P, a Roland JV-1010, a Korg X5DR, and an Ensoniq ESQ1, before I realized I could do as well or better with plugins.

I guess what I’m asking is, does the FM on the SY77 have algorithms or sounds that can’t be replicated elsewhere in the plugin world? What besides nostalgia moves a person to the love of the SY77?

Now, I’m quite positive that I’ve probably offended everyone here, which is not my intention, but I also know that many of you are very knowledgeable on this subject—way more than me. So, I’m asking in all seriousness—what is it to you that makes an SY77 plugin so special, other than nostalgia?

Here's what you need to understand. Yes, technically, you're right. If someone was patient enough to put together a number of synths to achieve a sound that you can get from one synth, why bother doing all that work? I wouldn't. Even if I could come up with a "better" sound, a more "complex" sound. Is it worth the effort? Only you can answer that question for yourself. But me? No way do I want to go through all that work. I want one synth that can give me what I'm looking for even if it's only close to what I'm looking for.

Having said that, as far as FM itself goes, I don't know any synth that has a more advanced FM engine, though I may be wrong.

Do I love the way the SY 77 sounds? Yes. Is it nostalgia? Well, it wasn't when I first heard one 36 years ago but couldn't afford to get one. Now I can afford to get one and it has nothing to do with nostalgia.

[Teksonik]

It appears to me that this plugin is for nostalgia purposes.....I’m asking in all seriousness—what is it to you that makes an SY77 plugin so special, other than nostalgia?

The same could be asked about the hundred or so emulations of analog hardware that have been released over the years.

If people are allowed to desire emulations of analog synths then other people are allowed to desire emulations of non-analog gear.

[audiojunkie]

Like I said previously, I meant no disrespect. I use Linux, and the developer has said he doesn’t have plans to support Linux. So, I kind of just lurked in the thread at a distance (and felt a bit jealous), when it hit me today—couldn’t all of this be done using a good FM synth, a sampler, and effects? And As soon as I realized that, I realized I had a solution to get (at least somewhat) the same thing in Linux (albeit with more work). And when I realized that, I wanted to know what motivated everyone else. There’s no question for me that I would want it, if it were available for Linux, but I wanted to hear others’ thoughts.