SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

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Swayed

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BBFG# wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:31 pm Well, not from a player stand point.
Like a guitarist, the "whammy" bar should be relative to the hands reach and not the arm. And never secondary to the board. Because I've also played with left-hand thinking keyboardists, I also know the left side is always a problem since that's the hand they prefer for playing. The only logical position is as close to center for these.
If you use them like a keyboardist, then it's okay where they are. If you use them as part of the instrument and have a left/right locus different from the majority of right/left locus. Then it is short-sighted.
From a player standpoint a third wheel that is just an extra Modulation control isn't all that handy

Using your whammy bar analogy that is what aftertouch is perfect for as you don't even have to move your hands off the keys, beyond that of course is poly AT, and MPE controls

The third wheel that you just move up and down is also easily replaced in functionality with a fader/slider and many controllers have 8 or 9 of those

You can also replace it in functionality with silicone "drum pads" that can be assigned to a CC and have aftertouch which are more and more common

With a complex multi-timbral synth like the SY77/SWAYED you can also take that a step further and implement something like the Novation Launch Pad Pro MKIII that has 64 pads that you can make any color you want and that have aftertouch. Each one can be on whatever MIDI channel you want, and output whatever CC you want with both velocity and polyphonic after touch, has hardware and USB MIDI also

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wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:27 pm So much for this being an SY 77 thread.
To be fair what else is there to talk about regarding Swayed? Until we get the demo to work with there's nothing more to discuss. Some people tried to talk about the name but they were savagely rebuffed.

The SY77 hardware isn't really on topic either since Swayed is not an emulation but an approximation. Discussions of the SY77 itself would probably be better left to the Hardware forum.

It might be a good idea to lock this thread until there is a demo or there will simply be further discussions that stray from the topic. Or just simply go with the flow until we have something concrete to discuss.

At any rate every post bumps this thread back to the top keeping it fresh in people's minds so there is that....... :shrug:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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audiojunkie wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:54 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:43 pm
audiojunkie wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:33 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:27 pm So much for this being an SY 77 thread.
Discussing playability and the best hardware for the three wheels/joysticks of the SY77 is on topic. :wink:
Right. Like everybody is going to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on a keyboard that will best be able to make the most use of this plugin. Hey, if you got money to burn, power to you. But I'll stay with the keyboard I have even if it can't make the most use of this plugin.
It doesn't have to be for JUST this plugin. But if a person is looking to get a new master midi controller, he/she might as well get one that supports everything in Sway. :)
Which is a good point. But hey, if you want to open up topics that could possibly be relevant to Sway, how about one of these?

Core Principles Of FM Synthesis
The History Of FM Synths
FM vs Analog...Which Is Better?
What's The Best Synth Architecture To Combine With FM?
The Pros and Cons Of FM Synthesis
The Future Of FM Synthesis
Is Hardware FM Superior To Software FM?

Go on. Pick one. I got a lot more in case you don't like any of these.

But please, at some point in the next 47 pages can we PLEASE actually talk about Swayed before nobody cares anymore?

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Teksonik wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 9:15 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:27 pm So much for this being an SY 77 thread.
To be fair what else is there to talk about regarding Swayed? Until we get the demo to work with there's nothing more to discuss. Some people tried to talk about the name but they were savagely rebuffed.

The SY77 hardware isn't really on topic either since Swayed is not an emulation but an approximation. Discussions of the SY77 itself would probably be better left to the Hardware forum.

It might be a good idea to lock this thread until there is a demo or there will simply be further discussions that stray from the topic. Or just simply go with the flow until we have something concrete to discuss.

At any rate every post bumps this thread back to the top keeping it fresh in people's minds so there is that....... :shrug:
Which is why I think a demo version should have been released by now. Eventually, people will get tired of waiting. If you think I'm kidding, I refer you to Flexion. Nobody cares anymore, not that the synth is ever going to be released after 12 years of development.

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Oh the entitlement

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Seafire Mk2 wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 9:39 pm Oh the entitlement
If that was directed at me, guess what? If this thing never gets released it'll just be another synth that didn't get released. Somehow, I will manage to survive.

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BBFG# wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:45 pm :lol:
Wonder, I do sometimes, if read people ever do… And think about their own comments, hmmmmm…
:?
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 9:20 pm Which is why I think a demo version should have been released by now. Eventually, people will get tired of waiting.
Oh I am 100% with you on this. Long periods of anticipation (we just passed two years since this project was announced) can lead to unreasonably high expectations or even worse, apathy.

I get the desire to make it as close to 100% perfect as possible but no matter how hard a developer tries someone is going to find some obscure bug at some time after release.

I'm certainly not as excited as I was when this project was first announced and can't help wonder what the pace of development (including bug fixes) will be after release.

But I'm willing to wait and give the demo a fair and unbiased tryout. Not much else we can do at this point....
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Using your whammy bar analogy that is what aftertouch is perfect for as you don't even have to move your hands off the keys, beyond that of course is poly AT, and MPE controls
Sure, but it could also be used perfectly for other things once you can use a joystick more effectively.

With a joystick I can pitchbend up/down, graceslide up/down, chirp and vibrato in a more natural way that trigger vibrato cannot. which frees up after touch to do other things like open filters, bring in layers/doubling, effects, etc.
So with proper initial/release velocity, after touch and a joystick that equals Korg joysticks, I have control over six basic things and more since I practice in how to use them.
You're arguing to be able to do less!

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wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 9:20 pm
Teksonik wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 9:15 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:27 pm So much for this being an SY 77 thread.
To be fair what else is there to talk about regarding Swayed? Until we get the demo to work with there's nothing more to discuss. Some people tried to talk about the name but they were savagely rebuffed.

The SY77 hardware isn't really on topic either since Swayed is not an emulation but an approximation. Discussions of the SY77 itself would probably be better left to the Hardware forum.

It might be a good idea to lock this thread until there is a demo or there will simply be further discussions that stray from the topic. Or just simply go with the flow until we have something concrete to discuss.

At any rate every post bumps this thread back to the top keeping it fresh in people's minds so there is that....... :shrug:
Which is why I think a demo version should have been released by now. Eventually, people will get tired of waiting. If you think I'm kidding, I refer you to Flexion. Nobody cares anymore, not that the synth is ever going to be released after 12 years of development.
Why? No one who would download a demo would get tired of waiting

I think it's much better to just wait for the official release and have Sheaf focus on that rather than worry about public beta, and all of the headaches that come with it.

If you really can't wait just buy an SY77, or TG77 they are readily available.

Or read Herbert Jansaen's excellent SY77 programming guide

www.herbert-janssen.de/doc/sy-prog.pdf

In any case I think the unbelievable entitlement and disrespect being shown to Sheaf in this thread is beyond the pale.

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wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 9:17 pm
audiojunkie wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:54 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:43 pm
audiojunkie wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:33 pm
wagtunes wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:27 pm So much for this being an SY 77 thread.
Discussing playability and the best hardware for the three wheels/joysticks of the SY77 is on topic. :wink:
Right. Like everybody is going to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on a keyboard that will best be able to make the most use of this plugin. Hey, if you got money to burn, power to you. But I'll stay with the keyboard I have even if it can't make the most use of this plugin.
It doesn't have to be for JUST this plugin. But if a person is looking to get a new master midi controller, he/she might as well get one that supports everything in Sway. :)
Which is a good point. But hey, if you want to open up topics that could possibly be relevant to Sway, how about one of these?

Core Principles Of FM Synthesis
The History Of FM Synths
FM vs Analog...Which Is Better?
What's The Best Synth Architecture To Combine With FM?
The Pros and Cons Of FM Synthesis
The Future Of FM Synthesis
Is Hardware FM Superior To Software FM?

Go on. Pick one. I got a lot more in case you don't like any of these.

But please, at some point in the next 47 pages can we PLEASE actually talk about Swayed before nobody cares anymore?
Ok, I pick:

FM vs Analog...Which Is Better?

There’s a billion of these types of threads here at KVR, and we all know how they end—dumpster fire. But you want to poo poo on our midi controller talk, so let’s do this. At least it will be fun to watch things burn… :(
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

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BBFG# wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 11:30 pm
Using your whammy bar analogy that is what aftertouch is perfect for as you don't even have to move your hands off the keys, beyond that of course is poly AT, and MPE controls
Sure, but it could also be used perfectly for other things once you can use a joystick more effectively.

With a joystick I can pitchbend up/down, graceslide up/down, chirp and vibrato in a more natural way that trigger vibrato cannot. which frees up after touch to do other things like open filters, bring in layers/doubling, effects, etc.
So with proper initial/release velocity, after touch and a joystick that equals Korg joysticks, I have control over six basic things and more since I practice in how to use them.
You're arguing to be able to do less!
Actually I am arguing for MPE which can do far more than a single joystick or whammy bar on a guitar

A joy stick takes your entire hand to manipulate two things and while you are doing that you don't have fingers on the keyboard

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Aloysius wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 10:38 pm
BBFG# wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 8:45 pm :lol:
I wonder sometimes if people ever read and think about their own comments...
:?
Fixed it back since you confused yourself.

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BBFG# wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 11:51 pm Confused myself, I did. Fixed it back, you have.
SWAY should seriously be called SHEAF-77. If other products are released they could have a uniform name. SHEAF-106 Etc.
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 11:49 pm
BBFG# wrote: Mon Jan 26, 2026 11:30 pm
Using your whammy bar analogy that is what aftertouch is perfect for as you don't even have to move your hands off the keys, beyond that of course is poly AT, and MPE controls
Sure, but it could also be used perfectly for other things once you can use a joystick more effectively.

With a joystick I can pitchbend up/down, graceslide up/down, chirp and vibrato in a more natural way that trigger vibrato cannot. which frees up after touch to do other things like open filters, bring in layers/doubling, effects, etc.
So with proper initial/release velocity, after touch and a joystick that equals Korg joysticks, I have control over six basic things and more since I practice in how to use them.
You're arguing to be able to do less!
Actually I am arguing for MPE which can do far more than a single joystick or whammy bar on a guitar

A joy stick takes your entire hand to manipulate two things and while you are doing that you don't have fingers on the keyboard
Isn't MPE five triggers? And while it has it's own nature, it does not always translate as well into others.
My major problem with MPE is the inability to do sixtuplet (six stroke) single note repetitions with one hand. I've only seen it done using two hands. Or by dedicating aftertouch to it, which sounds as robotic as predetermined vibrates and tremolos.
And even most really good MPE demos I've seen don't really use more than one hand musically while triggering those things anyway.

I'm only speaking to my technique, which is clearly different than your own.
Last edited by BBFG# on Tue Jan 27, 2026 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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