If AI replaces musicians, does the entire plugin industry die with them?

[BBFG#]

I'm starting to envision AI Automata filling the internet and not allowing human involvement without passing their own version of a Turing test. Forcing all musicians to return to hardware like the primitives AI already knows we are.

[stamp]

The day I will touch AI for creative purpose, please shoot me...
And to KVR... please make an AI section so I don't have to see and read this nonsense. Thank you!

[stamp]

Eventually we’ll get to the point where people will be able to ask for specialized instruments and effects and AI will be able to make them on the fly.

And all by just polluting air and water at an exponential rate and killing millions of braincells at the same time.. What's not to like?

[IvyBirds]

The day I will touch AI for creative purpose, please shoot me...
And to KVR... please make an AI section so I don't have to see and read this nonsense. Thank you!

Who is forcing you to read anything?

[jancivil]

the people in the music biz that feel threatened are that because they've all been copying the same mindless shit over and over for ages, exactly what "AI" "generating" music is all about. The remark 'it's because your music sucks' ain't it

[stamp]

The day I will touch AI for creative purpose, please shoot me...
And to KVR... please make an AI section so I don't have to see and read this nonsense. Thank you!

Who is forcing you to read anything?

My curiosity... to see how much humanity is lowering the bar in favour of machines doing the ''hard'' work...

[jancivil]

Who is forcing you to be such a dick

I feel a kind of duty to expose the bullshit and less of it is less of it. You have no say in how someone manages their impulsies. FFS check yourself

[Greenstorm33]

AI collapses the friction between idea and artifact, and that's the value, independent of the quality of the artifact.

I'd argue that the space between idea and artifact is enormously important and in some ways more valuable than what lies at either end. But, the people hawking these tools seem to be of the opinion that the only thing there is terrible drudgery that people undertook solely because it was required to get the result, and they have all the money so what do I know.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with random people being able to crank out an idea they had for a song, but how much awesome art was created because people had a vision and didn't quite have the tools or skills to execute it, or just started working on something and had it veer wildly off course? I worry we'll lose some of that.

Anyways, not really the topic of the thread. The music software industry has spent almost 20 years in race-to-the-bottom pricing enabled by mass marketing to non-professionals. I bet it turns out a lot of those people and kids who would have been them would rather just use suno. RIP.

[jancivil]

exactly right. No creative person wants that friction "collapsed".

"the opinion that the only thing there is terrible drudgery that people undertook solely because it was required to get the result" I've seem exactly this without trying to see anything of the sort, just around. zombies can reproduce by contact apparently

[ghettosynth]

AI collapses the friction between idea and artifact, and that's the value, independent of the quality of the artifact.

I'd argue that the space between idea and artifact is enormously important and in some ways more valuable than what lies at either end. But, the people hawking these tools seem to be of the opinion that the only thing there is terrible drudgery that people undertook solely because it was required to get the result, and they have all the money so what do I know.

You miss the point. You don't actually think that, but, you are applying it to something that you care about and you are not being honest about where you do value the efficiency. You post here, for example, which is vastly more efficient than pre-social media engagement. Do you use MIDI, a DAW, plugins? Then you value reducing friction. Do you carry a smartphone, or any phone, then you value reducing friction. Do you ever print things with a printer, or submit an electronic document, then you value reducing friction. Do you take picture with a digital camera or your phone, then you value reducing friction. Before that did you have someone else develop your prints, then you value reducing friction. Everyone values reducing friction. When it is that dramatic, that value generally trumps the value of the process. I doubt for example, that you will tell me that you hand fill all of your tax forms because the special relationship that you have with pen and paper really is "enormously important." The photography enthusiast will say exactly the same thing. "Oh developing your own prints is really important to get the best outcome." Yea, grandma DGAF, she just wants faster pictures of her grandbabies.

This has been true since the value of time. It's always a tradeoff. Oh the printing press, yea, that definitely reduced friction and that was the value. I'm sure that there was some monk trying to make the same argument at the time that his relationship with ink and paper was "enormously important." No, it wasn't, at least for others.

You are projecting your interests onto people who don't share them. You are also devaluing what you get from that friction reduction when you do care about them. It's an attempt to moralize this discussion. That's where most of KVR lives it seems. It's a waste of energy.

So, the mistake in reasoning is thinking that without AI you will attract the millions of people using AI to create music. You will not. To them, it's ONLY interesting, at the moment, because that friction is reduced. Now, they may change later, but we don't know that. Not that it matters in any case.

[ghettosynth]

I'm starting to envision AI Automata filling the internet and not allowing human involvement without passing their own version of a Turing test. Forcing all musicians to return to hardware like the primitives AI already knows we are.

Corporations already function as gatekeepers here. You can't post here if you don't pass the basic compliance test. You're trusted to post up to the point that you fail the test. Humans, not AI, invented that structure.

[IvyBirds]

The day I will touch AI for creative purpose, please shoot me...
And to KVR... please make an AI section so I don't have to see and read this nonsense. Thank you!

Who is forcing you to read anything?

My curiosity... to see how much humanity is lowering the bar in favour of machines doing the ''hard'' work...

Wouldn't your curiosity make you also read the hypothetical AI forum then?

Why should we have a separate forum when you won't ignore it anyway?

[ghettosynth]

Where I think that this forum just doesn't get it is that people like to play with shit.

Are we talking about things like prompt injection to make AIs go haywire and actually produce something that is truly interesting, unique, original?

Good question. Why don't you post an example of something from the Cafe that you think is "truly interesting, unique, and original?"

[ghettosynth]

Here's CELIA TEWEY, playing as one of the artists in NYC piano week.

"100 Sutton Presents: NYC Piano Week 2024
"A week-long celebration of piano mastery as we present Piano Week, featuring over 50 talented performers" "



Here's her Suno page:

https://suno.com/@celia_2e

Here's one of her Suno tracks:

https://suno.com/song/4b06609a-4b4d-406 ... ba93c73af6

A solo piano piece in a classical style, featuring a melancholic and reflective mood, The tempo is slow, allowing for clear articulation of each note, The melody is played in the upper register, with a flowing, legato feel, The harmony is rich, utilizing extended chords and subtle dissonances to create emotional depth, The dynamics are generally soft, with occasional swells to emphasize certain phrases, The piece is structured with a clear AABA form, where the B section introduces a slightly more complex harmonic progression before returning to the main theme, The production is clean, with a natural piano sound and minimal reverb, highlighting the acoustic qualities of the instrument

Her web page:

https://celiatewey.com/

Now, I'm not judging her music in any way. TBH, it's not really a style that interests me much. The point is that she is a musician. She is leveraging this site in some way for herself as a part of her interaction with the world. There are some 44 remixes of her AI track.

Perhaps, instead of declaring to the world that you will never use AI for creative work, you might think about how the tools that interest others can expand your presence in the world, which most of you clearly care about?

Her Spotify page: her top track has 35k streams and she has 2,319 monthly listeners.

https://open.spotify.com/artist/3b6ooJv90azlf8OcdVd3ce

Her Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/CeliaTewey

BTW: I didn't go searching for this, it was the first "hook" that I clicked on.

[DCrown]

Most of you seem to completely ignore one of the biggest downsides of ai. Since you don't need any skills to produce and upload music/noise today, there will be and already are more new uploads every day, more new music in one day than you could listen to within 10 years. A day has 24 hours.

We seem to give music a value, don't we?
Otherwise kvr wouldn't be full of posts.
And I am not even talking about quality, every full ai production I listened to sounded like crap like something I heard a thousand times before.

What's the value of music today and tomorrow?
It has the value of a fart, doesn't it?
Everyone can produce music, everyone can produce farts. There is lots of farting every day, there is a lot (way too much) of new music/noise everyday. Farts do not smell good, most of today's music, as well.

Some say that some might use ai in a creative way, who cares?, cuz ai will cause a complete overdose of available crap. There will be so many farts every day, that you could hardly breathe.

It is pretty obvious that today crap kinda rules, luckily there (still) are also some exceptions.
Music is just one example.
There is no qualifation or separation needed any more, everthing is put into one cup (qualified and un-qualified). The cup is called the internet. So called influencers talk about things they have no qualification, no clue of and the worst thing, a lot of them have lots of followers and even earn money. OF is another example, you don't need skills to do OF. And they are called content creators lol or influencers, influencers influence other people!
The internet turned the world into a place where dwarfs cast big shadows and less than mediocrity, decadence, laziness and stupidity have become standard.

So have a nice day and keep on farting!