KODA Sampler - coming KONTAKT alternative?

[Tj Shredder]

I am guilty, I derailed it…: - )
We should go on with the Ultra discussion in the Ultra thread…
I don’t think that Kontakt is even close to what Ultra does. Its not classical resynthesis either, its new…

[bermudagold]

I am guilty, I derailed it…: - )
We should go on with the Ultra discussion in the Ultra thread…
I don’t think that Kontakt is even close to what Ultra does. Its not classical resynthesis either, its new…

why do people make such definitive statements in a vacuum of information?
"I don’t think that Kontakt is even close to what Ultra does"..how do u know?...by what metric?...spoken like someone who has never built much in kontakt or any real sampler...u know kontakt and Hise have wavetable engines alongside pcm right?
"Its not classical resynthesis either, its new"...what does that even mean?
none of those conclusions is based on anything tangible...this is the problem with jargon and buzzwords...they get in the way of objective apples to apples discourse...that's also why some people use them

[bermudagold]

I’m not exactly sure of the process myself. I just know that you load a sample, the program analyzes it, and then makes a synth that recreates the sample that was loaded.

My mental model

PCM sampling = reproducing or reconstructing a previously recorded (or captured) sound utilizing PCM (Pulse Code Modulation)... It works by sampling an analog waveform at regular intervals (e.g., 44.1 kHz), quantizing each sample to a fixed bit depth (e.g., 16-bit or 24-bit), and storing those numbers...When you play a PCM file, you're reconstructing the original waveform from those stored numbers...you're not creating new timbre or harmonics; you're replaying what was already captured.

Synthesis = generating sound from scratch (mathematically or procedurally)...creating the waveform in real time using algorithms, oscillators, envelopes, modulation, etc...No pre-recorded audio is required as the starting point.

Resynthesis = using synthesis to recreate the sound of a PCM sample...almost all are either implementations of granular or additive or a combination of the two...granular reconstructs the sound from small pieces of the original sound or synthetic clones of those pieces...NI Form for example is PSOLA which for all intents and purposes is a constrained implementation of granular where grain size is locked to multiples of pitch period, grain rate is locked to pitch rate, and grain positioning is deterministic (not random/cloud-like)...additive reconstructs the sound synthetically by summing many individual sine waves of varying frequency, amplitude, and phase envelopes (partials)...In additive (pure additive/wavetable/spectral) the different implementations essentially just vary the mechanisms by which the end user views and manipulates the partials...many modern "wavetable" synths such as Icarus, provide a pure additive implementation (partial editor), alongside the wavetable implementation (waveform cycle editor)

based on the waveform cycle editor, the creation of wavetables, and the mechanisms for manipulating the wavetables, I am assuming ultra is doing additive resynthesis...but of course I cant say for sure...they do have "patent pending" on their website, so there may be more to it...what constitutes that "more" has been the question...anybody familiar with patents in USA will know being granted a patent doesn't exactly mean what it used to...but none of that really matters if you as an individual hear something new or novel in the end result...and you trust ur ears of course

[audiojunkie]

I’m not exactly sure of the process myself. I just know that you load a sample, the program analyzes it, and then makes a synth that recreates the sample that was loaded.

My mental model

PCM sampling = reproducing or reconstructing a previously recorded (or captured) sound utilizing PCM (Pulse Code Modulation)... It works by sampling an analog waveform at regular intervals (e.g., 44.1 kHz), quantizing each sample to a fixed bit depth (e.g., 16-bit or 24-bit), and storing those numbers...When you play a PCM file, you're reconstructing the original waveform from those stored numbers...you're not creating new timbre or harmonics; you're replaying what was already captured.

Synthesis = generating sound from scratch (mathematically or procedurally)...creating the waveform in real time using algorithms, oscillators, envelopes, modulation, etc...No pre-recorded audio is required as the starting point.

Resynthesis = using synthesis to recreate the sound of a PCM sample...almost all are either implementations of granular or additive...granular reconstructs the sound from small pieces of the original sound...for example NI Form uses PSOLA which for all intents and purposes is an implementation of granular...additive reconstructs the sound by summing many individual sine waves of varying frequency, amplitude, and phase envelopes (partials)...In additive (pure additive/wavetable/spectral) the different implementations essentially just vary the mechanisms by which the end user views and manipulates the partials...many modern "wavetable" synths such as Icarus, provide a pure additive implementation (partial editor), alongside the wavetable implementation (waveform cycle editor)

based on the waveform cycle editor, the creation of wavetables, and the mechanisms for manipulating the wavetables, I am assuming ultra is doing additive resynthesis...they do have "patent pending" on their website, so there may be more to it...what constitutes that "more" has been the question...anybody familiar with patents in USA will know being granted a patent doesn't exactly mean what it used to...but none of that really matters if you as an individual hear something new or novel in the end result...and you trust ur ears of course

Very interesting and useful!! I wasn't aware that resynthesis is essentially granular or additive synthesis. Thanks for taking the time to post all of that!

[Tj Shredder]

I only mentioned Ultra, because it does, what I would expect from a sampler of my dreams. Throw a single audio file with all the notes I played on an arbitrary acoustic instrument, cut it up and create all the mapping in one go.
In the end Ultra isn’t a sampler, but it has a resynthesis method which is neither spectral/additive nor granular… Of course it also lacks the ability to create a dedicated user interface. Which I think isn’t that important for me…
Koda might still be a decent sampler, but its not the sampler of my dreams. Its missing the most crucial part of my dream… But who knows, it shouldn’t be too hard to build such a thing…

[bermudagold]

I only mentioned Ultra, because it does, what I would expect from a sampler of my dreams. Throw a single audio file with all the notes I played on an arbitrary acoustic instrument, cut it up and create all the mapping in one go.
In the end Ultra isn’t a sampler, but it has a resynthesis method which is neither spectral/additive nor granular… Of course it also lacks the ability to create a dedicated user interface. Which I think isn’t that important for me…
Koda might still be a decent sampler, but its not the sampler of my dreams. Its missing the most crucial part of my dream… But who knows, it shouldn’t be too hard to build such a thing…

did they say their resynthesis method was neither additive or granular?...where is that assumption coming from?...i thought I saw you saying in the ultra thread you weren't getting the results you expected or wanted...how is that experience coming?...still gung ho?...btw tomofon does exactly that process u describe...using additive resynthesis...have u tried it?...with automation being added to everything with or without AI, I'm sure a pcm sampler that does that will be around shortly

[martinjuenke]

Breaking news:
KODA is taking over KONTAKT code base and user data.
We're saved!

[Uncle E]

Real? Is there a link to that?

[EvilDragon]

Sarcasm.

[martinjuenke]

Yes

[audiojunkie]

Breaking news:
KODA is taking over KONTAKT code base and user data.
We're saved!

[Old Norse]

Breaking news:
KODA is taking over KONTAKT code base and user data.
We're saved!

This new, unified fusion product will be called KODAK, and the slogan shall be:

"You press the button, we do the rest."

[martinjuenke]

[HM]

Breaking news:
KODA is taking over KONTAKT code base and user data.
We're saved!

Haha, good joke

No-one is saved, as long as its still a closed format, dependend of activation-server, etc,.

People could still be dragged around by the nose once again, and again, or just be deadended

So there is more to this than just "hope for someone else" to continue the same bad comedy

[dune_rave]

Hey, were not at april 1st !