Waveform 14 Public Beta

[aMUSEd]

If I understood correctly, then:

Tracktion Waveform provides you with interfacing to AI, and pre-selected some providers which got a special permission to access non-public documentation and code from Tracktion in order to become able to generate better answers. AI without this permission can only base its knowledge on publicly available information, like the answers found in this forum.
The Interface of Waveform then also cares, for instance in the case that you requested from the AI to generate you some MIDI pattern which fits to your own already edited music, to also give the permitted AI access to your Edit, so that the AI can see what you have done already, and then offering you the possibility to include the response of the AI right away into your project or not.
Using this Waveform internal interface will therefore allow some AI to generate a potentially better answer than a query to the same AI from outside of Waveform.

However, using the service of AI - and having to cover the costs which the AI provider charges for using its AI, is up to the user!
The API Key is your credentials by which you log in to your account, which you purchased from one of the AI providers of interest, one of those which Tracktion announces to be compatible with the Waveform interface usage and having got that special permission to make usage of additional information provided by Tracktion to them. There are cheap, fast and not so good answering AI models, which you could interface to, or expensive, slow and better quality models. You can chose between the various AI models from various pre-selected providers, according to your needs and financial efforts. Tracktion leaves such subscription completely in your hands, which is possible, because your API Key from your AI account with an AI provider manages your business directly with the AI provider.

Still, the quality of answers of the AI to a large extend also depends on you to query the AI by advantageous prompts.

All together, the decision to use AI and the quality and costs of the answers of AI is in the hands of the user. What Tracktion Waveform offers you is, that using the interface of Waveform for accessing AI has an advantage in terms of quality and comfort over using such AI disconnected from Waveform.

Ok so if the ‘assistant’ is really just an interface to the AI of your choice I don’t see how one would need it inside the DAW as you could just ask the same questions on the internet. I was under the impression it could do stuff in Waveform like build a macro or maybe run a batch script, but if it is just the same AI you can access from anywhere then it doesn’t really have any actual integrated connection to Waveform and knows no more than any other AI about Waveform as a DAW

[unholyeyebrows]

I think a lot of this discussion about the new features, and the API keys for AI in particular, could have been reduced if the beta was accompanied with a user guide for the new features, even if it was just a rough readme for now. Would be good to get a bit more detail so us testing the beta could learn the new features and properly test them. Otherwise the value of opening up the beta to the public (which is a great thing BTW) may not achieve it's full potential.

[talby]

Ok so if the ‘assistant’ is really just an interface to the AI of your choice I don’t see how one would need it inside the DAW as you could just ask the same questions on the internet.(...)
knows no more than any other AI about Waveform as a DAW

As I mentioned, I understood that the AI which you access from within the interface gets the permission to consider more documentation about Waveform than is publicly available. Using this Waveform internal interface will therefore allow a same AI model to generate a potentially better answer than a query to the same AI model from outside of Waveform.

[unholyeyebrows]

I have an Open AI account but do not currently pay for a subscription nor do I have any credit. I'm curious to try the AI in Waveform. Does anyone have any tips for the cheapest Open AI option to purchase for testing this out?

EDIT: my understanding is that using Open AI via the API is not free hence why I believe one needs a paid subscription.

[pough]

I was under the impression it could do stuff in Waveform like build a macro or maybe run a batch script, but if it is just the same AI you can access from anywhere then it doesn’t really have any actual integrated connection to Waveform and knows no more than any other AI about Waveform as a DAW

There's not much point assuming, is there? Eventually someone will give it a try or actual info will come out that answers questions.

From what I see on the beta sign-up page it at least looks like it can do more than just chat.

Can generate MIDI sequences
"Generate me 4 bar melody, bass and chord sequences for this track"
Can read existing MIDI clips and generate accompaniments, for the same and different instruments
"Create a bass line and drum sequence to go with this melody"
Can generate Javascript shortcuts using the existing API which can be run directly from the assistant panel or saved for future use
"Create me a script to rename all the clips on each track to the track name"
Has memory to retain information about you and your tastes
"Make a memory that I like jungle D&B"
Can create custom slash commands to quickly run features with arguments
"/generate_midi 4 bar EDM synth lead"
Can create "Skills" which contain detailed custom information for future tasks

[starflakeprj]

EDIT: my understanding is that using Open AI via the API is not free hence why I believe one needs a paid subscription.

A subscription won’t get you access to the API. For example, ChatGPT Plus doesn’t include an API key. Instead, API usage is billed based on token consumption, for both input and output.

[jabe]

'No additional subscriptions, BYOK pay as you go with the model of your choice (OpenAI and Anthropic support initially)'

I don't understand this, what does BYOK mean? It sounds like they will be charging for use of the AI?

Bring Your Own Key - it looks like the key is your passkey to access whichever AI you subscribe to.

[Kodokushi]

If i wanted to make music with the support or help from Ai tools, i'd simply use Suno Studio or the like, surely not a DAW like Waveform, which in the past couldn't even come up with an up-to-date manual, or an in-place-help like in Bitwig.

[Watchful]

Had a couple of minutes to look at 14 today. It's hard to say whether or not I like it--it certainly is different.

I think the menus across the top of the screen (a) make sense but (b) will take some getting used to.

I also like the ability to have the time code AND the bar/beat counter visible at all times. This was previously only on the useful menu, which I complained about a lot in the past. I'd call this a definite fix.

Still missing all the information on that useful menu, though. But overall, things do seem to be either the same or somewhat improved.

[Paree]

If i wanted to make music with the support or help from Ai tools, i'd simply use Suno Studio or the like, surely not a DAW like Waveform, which in the past couldn't even come up with an up-to-date manual, or an in-place-help like in Bitwig.

If my understanding is correct, it's more of an AI based macro generator than it generating music for you. Having said that, I'm not sure if I would be needing it since I am familiar with the DAW.
As long as it's not in your face and can be hidden or disabled, i don't think it changes anything for me

[citrusui]

Waveform 14 now provides interfacing to AI providers, but does not obligate you or make you dependent of making any use of this interface.

Correct. However, I would not like to see it at all (hidden). This is trivial to implement. There is no justification for showing an interface that the user will never use.

For example, Ableton shows a pane for Splice in the browser by default, but it puts me in control by letting me disable that pane in Preferences. The only reason that one would be against a toggle (note again, this is a trivial addition to the code) would be the belief that everyone should use Assistant/give it a chance/be aware of it, etc.

Plus, there is no guarantee that Tracktion won't push this even harder on users with a "friendly reminder" or upsell screen. It's fairly simple... I don't wish to see a feature that requires a subscription, an ongoing cost, or an extra license to use. I would react the same way if they decided to add a customizable search engine (eg Google/Bing) panel to the app. Whether the feature is useful/not useful to some is not the point I am trying to make.

[jabe]

Waveform 14 now provides interfacing to AI providers, but does not obligate you or make you dependent of making any use of this interface.

Correct. However, I would not like to see it at all (hidden). This is trivial to implement. There is no justification for showing an interface that the user will never use.

For example, Ableton shows a pane for Splice in the browser by default, but it puts me in control by letting me disable that pane in Preferences. The only reason that one would be against a toggle (note again, this is a trivial addition to the code) would be the belief that everyone should use Assistant/give it a chance/be aware of it, etc.

Plus, there is no guarantee that Tracktion won't push this even harder on users with a "friendly reminder" or upsell screen. It's fairly simple... I don't wish to see a feature that requires a subscription, an ongoing cost, or an extra license to use. I would react the same way if they decided to add a customizable search engine (eg Google/Bing) panel to the app. Whether the feature is useful/not useful to some is not the point I am trying to make.

Why would you think "there is no guarantee that Tracktion won't push this even harder on users with a "friendly reminder" or upsell screen" if they're not charging for it?

[SMSomething]

Waveform 14 now provides interfacing to AI providers, but does not obligate you or make you dependent of making any use of this interface.

Correct. However, I would not like to see it at all (hidden). This is trivial to implement. There is no justification for showing an interface that the user will never use.

For example, Ableton shows a pane for Splice in the browser by default, but it puts me in control by letting me disable that pane in Preferences. The only reason that one would be against a toggle (note again, this is a trivial addition to the code) would be the belief that everyone should use Assistant/give it a chance/be aware of it, etc.

Plus, there is no guarantee that Tracktion won't push this even harder on users with a "friendly reminder" or upsell screen. It's fairly simple... I don't wish to see a feature that requires a subscription, an ongoing cost, or an extra license to use. I would react the same way if they decided to add a customizable search engine (eg Google/Bing) panel to the app. Whether the feature is useful/not useful to some is not the point I am trying to make.

Why would you think "there is no guarantee that Tracktion won't push this even harder on users with a "friendly reminder" or upsell screen" if they're not charging for it?

You certainly didn't aim the question directly to me, however... Doctors (some) in the messed up health profession that plagues much of the medical field get a "payout" for every prescription they successfully sell to their "patients". My cynical nature wonders whether Tracktion will have a similar arrangement with the AI providers they have arrangements with.

Just say'n, not say'n.

[dayvyg]

That would be a really bad move from a PR perspective. I'd be very surprised if they tried to "upsell" AI.

d.

[dayvyg]

All in all, I'm pretty impressed by the stability of W14. I mostly use Linux now and it's feeling really snappy and plugins that crashed W13.5 (e.g. VCV Rack) work great in W14. Also, I haven't had any issues with Windows plugins via Yabridge either. They've all been solid and very responsive.

I wish they would improve the clip automation though. It's really painful assigning automation to synths with multiple parameters. A simple search or learn function would make it a lot better. Also, it would be nice if there was a submenu that only showed parameters that are currently being automated.

I have mixed feelings about the Control Panel being gone at the bottom. I've never liked showing it all the time as it takes up a good chunk of real estate and toggling it on and off changes the position of the transport. Either option was not to my liking. I think I can embrace those controls being on a side panel.

d.