Oh Melody where have you gone...?

[whyterabbyt]

fractalism quoth
I don't think that you are in any position to deny me my rights to have opinions and thoughts about this subject or anything else...

I dont think he denied you any 'rights' at all.

I belive that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it...and there are more ppl born with brains capable of understanding classcal than there are ppl capable of understanding classical/rock/pop or whatever...

Ummm, right. Genetic predisposition towards types of music less than 1000 years old...

that's a fact!

I thought you said it was your belief. If its a 'fact' please provide some kind of proof. Thank you.

[snooky]

it's a fact that I belive in it...and the rest of you can continue to live in the darkness with your gods and what not...

I don't eat music, I am music and my strings of energy vibrate to the beat of a kickdrum...

[snooky]

fractalism wrote:
I belive that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it...and there are more ppl born with brains capable of understanding classcal than there are ppl capable of understanding classical/rock/pop or whatever...

whyterabbyt wrote:
Ummm, right. Genetic predisposition towards types of music less than 1000 years old...

Yes! the trance inducing state that one can experience while listening to repetitive electronica is exatcly the same as what the prehistoric civlisations atained when beating a rock against a piece of wood...Chanitin' and singin'

it's the same...electronica is the evolution of that, the instrumentation has changed, but the power of the beat has not changed...only certian persons can experience that vibe..others listen to britney...or classical

[clueless]

only certian persons can experience that vibe..others listen to britney...or classical

or all, or neither, or...

[soulata]

Is "narrow-minded" the right word for it?

k

[FaX]

Almost anyone with a musical talent can learn to compose classical...but very few can compose electronica

Bullshit. Try comparing the userbase of electronic versus classical composition forums for an actual metric. You'll find that there are numbers of people writing electronica by orders of magnitude over classical.

Part of this is merely preference: electronic is the pop music of our day. Part of it is the entrance price: it's quite easy to buy a copy of FL or Orion or Reason or ACID and be ready to go. (Though GPO rocks as an affordable starter classical package!)

But when it comes down to it, composing electronica is as easy as putting a bass line over a drum beat. And both of those can be loops. Electronica dramatically lowers the bar for inclusion in the world of "composers".

So, Do you honsetly think that Bach or Mozart would understand and succefully compose electronica if they were alive today??

Yes. And why not? And why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

It takes a certain kind of brainfunktion/type to appreitiate electronic sounds...not everyone can do it...but almost anyone can understand classical.

More crap. So it takes no knowledge or sensitivity to understand the combined timbres of 80+ orchestral instruments with all their different articulations, modulations, and techniques?

And somehow a TB-303 with two waveforms and few knobs is a complete mystery to a classical composer?

You have a serious misunderstanding of the depth of knowledge required to compose for a large ensemble. Using a string patch does *not* make you a symphonic composer, just as using an electric piano doesn't make you a jazz composer.

You simply lack the knowledge to make these claims.

On the other hand, I'm not tearing down electronica. Great electronica is an achievement, a true artform. But average electronica is infinitely easier to produce than average classical.

At least this is what I belive...not sure if it's true.

At least you admit it. Passionate belief is commendable, but wishing doesn't make it so. I'd claim that your assertion is most definitely *not* true, and can assemble some logical data as evidence.

- m

Why the harsh words Mr. Markleford??
I don't think that you are in any position to deny me my rights to have opinions and thoughts about this subject or anything else...I belive that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it...and there are more ppl born with brains capable of understanding classical than there are ppl capable of understanding electronica.
I'm not talking about how many produce any one kind of style just now..sure there are more electronic producers than classical composers, but if a complete 80+ piece symphony orchestra could be downloaded from the net or otherwis, I'm quite sure that many, many more would engage in classical composing...

It's much easier to begin writing electronica yes, but judging from the nr of ambient bollocks and boring meanderings avalible on the net as free downloads, it's very, very obvoius that the spirit of electroica is not in the hearts of everyone...

You will not change my mind on this subject so anyone wanting to tell me otherwise, please don't...use your energy for something more constructive.

Electronica and real music is in my heart and soul, classical is very interesting and powerfull, so is underground hiphop, indie rock and more experimental styles...but nothing touches electronica...not in my world.

That's fine we're all quite happy to leave you with your somewhat ignorant notions on what and what doesn't constitute complex notation/arrangement etc etc ...
Now go write an electronica concerto for me maestro

[aMUSEd]

I don't understand the problem here - music has never been about melody alone. A lot of music has very little or even none and focuses far more on the rhythmic, temporal or textural aspects - this is a very western centric view of music and even then a lot of western music has grown beyond traditional melodic limitations.

[Hovmod]

Is "narrow-minded" the right word for it?

I was going to go for plain and simple "ignorant".

T

[snooky]

That's fine we're all quite happy to leave you with your somewhat ignorant notions on what and what doesn't constitute complex notation/arrangement etc etc ...
Now go write an electronica concerto for me maestro

Yes siree, Bob!

soon, the electronica opus will be at hand!

[CypherOne]

I don't eat music, I am music and my strings of energy vibrate to the beat of a kickdrum...

hello? is it dark in there?

[soulata]

Is "narrow-minded" the right word for it?

I was going to go for plain and simple "ignorant".

T

[Hovmod]

I don't understand the problem here - music has never been about melody alone. A lot of music has very little or even none and focuses far more on the rhythmic, temporal or textural aspects - this is a very western centric view of music and even then a lot of western music has grown beyond traditional melodic limitations.

That's very true. But you're kind of opening the same can of worms, because there too you have the same dichotomy. Does Bollywood have anything to do with classical hindi music? Nope. It's not enough to stick some tabla loops and a sitar drone in there to make it music. That a lot of people dance to it and cry to it and make love to it and fill their CD shelves with it does not make it art.

And it has nothing to do with "feeling" or "brainfunction". It's mostly a matter of education and commitment there as well.

[oldevil]

this thread is geting kinda silly... people tend to think the music they like is 'superior' to other music. i find most classical technically more complicated than other music. i also find it boring, and don't listen to much anymore. i just don't understand how anyone could sit thru 4 hours of a workhorse concerto, but lots of people do and love it. same with most modern jazz. i find electronica far more interesting, but then i tend to like anything that could be considered 'outside music'; maybe i have bad taste.. but discussions about which music is 'better' can only result in acrimony. it's just a matter of opinions, and as we say in the USA, opinions are like assholes, and every asshole's got one. my 2 pennies worth... peace

[Markleford]

Why the harsh words Mr. Markleford??

Because unfounded pontification annoys me. What you speak of may be founded on belief, but nowhere approaches fact, nor do you have any appreciable evidence founded in reality to support your argument.

You might as well claim, "I believe a cat has six legs." Doesn't make it true.

I don't think that you are in any position to deny me my rights to have opinions and thoughts about this subject or anything else...

And I'm not denying that right.

But I have a right to say you're full of crap and have the right to produce evidence to the contrary.

I belive that to understand the soul of electronica you need to be born with it...

Now that may be a believable assertion. Then again, one could contend that *any* person is born with a particular affinitiy or aptitude for *something*. It's the old "nature vs nurture" debate.

However, the bullshit-detector starts flashing when you contend that a classical composer from the past *couldn't* master electronica as easily as a person born today. To say that there is a genetic link to development of technology is preposterous.

Go read a book about genetics. Go read a book about developmental psychology. Go read a book about cognitive science. Then maybe you'll get a clue as to why I "believe" you're so wrong.

and there are more ppl born with brains capable of understanding classical than there are ppl capable of understanding electronica.

How can you claim that when you don't even understand classical music yourself?

You will not change my mind on this subject so anyone wanting to tell me otherwise, please don't...use your energy for something more constructive.

That's fine. We cannot change your mind.

But you can't convince us that you're not preaching from the pulpit of ignorance.

- m

[mayan]

wow...this "either/or" stuff is just plain ludicrous The assertion that the classically-oriented (whatever/whoever that is) can't understand ""electronic-oriented" (whatever/whoever that is) is the highest form of base ignorance and is totally meaningless.

What about all the "classical" composers who championed electronic music? Stockhausen and the like. What about the folks like Terry Riley and Robert Rich (very different, I know but both accomplished musicians who helped to break the "electronic" thing wide open)...and those are just two that came to mind. My sense of the classical informs my sense of the electronic and vice verse. I was not born with electronica playing in my ears...rather Schubert, Mozart and the rest of the holy host. Similarly, were the Deities of "electronica" - Orbital, the Orb, whoever "born" with it? Jeeeez!!