jorgen : sugg. on ext being a pro stand alone sequencer

[brok landers]

hi all, hi jorgen,

like promised here is a list of suggestions for enhancing ext in order to be the best standalone sequencer ever ...
it is a bit long, so i made available for download. it`s an ordinary word pad doc and zipped.

comments are welcome,

reg,

edit :
as i`ve been told (as you can see in the lower post)
that word pad doc`s generally could do harm on the net (wich i diddn`t know), don`t download the file, i posted the whole thing here directly.

edit : download not possible anymore.

[dramsenik]

Hi,

Word docs are not welcome (in general on the net)they can contain macros and hence viruses.

So even if your list is long (who cares?) i suggest you post it here with a simple copy-paste...

[jens]

and did you read through the FR-list before you made that list?

[brok landers]

ext issues


general info :

theese suggestions are made under the aspect, to enhance ext in order to become
a state of a clever, easy to use, yet complex standalone sequencer software.
furthermore theese suggestions focus the aspect to speed up the workflow in ext
in terms of arranging, mixing and mastering in one process at a time.
however, theese suggestions are of course only thoughts of a user (though quite experianced so please dont take that as a moaning.
also note, that i am new to ext, so things i mention here could be allready there, and i am just too dumb to see it ...



in order to alter the need of allways having to wire everything manually, i was thinking
of a alternative way of handling the mixer and the routing.
there is allready a way to work without cabling alternatively, but it is decoupled off the
mainwindow. theese capabilities should imo be enhanced greatly.

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here my suggestions :

the main window should represent all components in form from objects.
every component visible in the main window can be used, selectable in the sequencer.
if a component is not placed/created there, it is not to be used in the sequencer.
aternatively to having to cable all objects, they should appear in the sequencer window
(if they are created on the mainwindow), selectable to assign a track.
f.e. :
create a "component" on the mainwindow.
a "component" can be defined as an a midi comp, audio comp, a vsti comp, or a bus comp, all done in the mainwindow (via rightclick on icon > properties).
the way it should be assigned is in the sequencer track.

lets say i want to create a vsti track, wich i wanna work with in the usual way :

1. create a comp on the main window.
2. rightclick that comp > properties : choose what you want the comp to be (in this case check "vsti") now it is a vsti comp. best is to name it after the vsti you want to use.
3. create another comp on the main window.
4. rightclick > properties : choose what you want the comp to be (in this case check "midi") now it is a midi comp. name it after the vsti you want to control/play it with.
5. open the sequencer window. no track is open.
6. create an empty track.

once a track is created, the sequencer mixer on the left in the sequencer should show the following options via drop down menue :

- select comp
- select comp (yes, 2 times, you`ll see it will make sense;)

now select (in the upper "select comp") the midi comp you have been created.
then select (in the lower "select comp") the vsti comp you have been created.

once this is done (both selections), the sequencermixer on the left in the sequencer should show the following options :

01. the midiport the vsti should respond to (drop down menue), in case you want to control a plugin via midi, next to it an option to choose the insert wich holds the plugin you want to control
02. the midichannel the vsti should respond to.
03. 1 slot to select a vsti (drop down menue)
04. 1 slot for midiplugins (allways expands + 1 when it is assigned with a plugin, drop down menue)
05. 1 slot as insert for audioplugins (allways expands + 1 when it is assigned with a plugin, drop down menue)
06. 1 potisslot as send, rightclickpre/post switch (allways expands + 1 when it is assigned with a plugin, drop down menue)
07. the audio outputslot for assigning the audio output.
08. panpoti
09. vu meter (veritical)
10. mute, solo
11. level slider (veritical)

now select the midiport and the midichannel wich the vsti should respond to in the given slot.
then select a vsti in the given slot.
finished.
you are now ready to play and record the vsti.
from now on this track represented as a vsti channelstrip that contains all necessary content that maybe relevant on that track, all visible in the sequencer mixer on the left.

note : that way multi timbral instruments also could be assigned very easy. just create another miditrack as upper described, assign the midiport, the midichannel and a different output,
assign the vsti (wich of course should be available in a dropdown menue, called "used vsti`s or such) -
voila ... you`re ready to go

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or, f.e. create an audio track.

1. create a comp on the main window.
2. rightclick > properties : choose what you want the comp to be (in this case check "audio").now it is an audio comp.
3. create another comp on the main window.
4. rightclick > properties : choose what you want the comp to be (in this case check "midi") now it is a midi comp. name it after the audio comp you want to control it with.
5. open the sequencer window. no track is open.
4. create an empty track.

once the track is created, the sequencer mixer on the left in the sequencer should show the following options via drop down menue :

- select comp
- select comp
now select (in the upper "select comp") the midi comp you have been created.
then select (in the lower "select comp") the audio comp you have been created.

once this is done (both selections), the sequencermixer on the left in the sequencer should show the following :

01. the midiport (drop down menue), in case you want to control a plugin or the level etc via midi, next to it an option to choose the insert wich holds the plugin you want to control
02. the midichannel that slot should respond to.
03. 1 slot for midiplugins, f.e. controller transforming (allways expands + 1 when it is assigned with a plugin, drop down menue)
04. 1 slot as insert for audioplugins (allways expands + 1 when it is assigned with a plugin, drop down menue)
05. 1 potisslot as send, rightclickpre/post switch (allways expands + 1 when it is assigned with a plugin, drop down menue)
06. the audio outputslot for assigning the audio output.
07. panpoti
08. vu meter (vertical)
09. mute, solo
10. level slider (veritical)

now select the midiport and the midichannel wich the audio comp should respond to in the given slot.
finished.
you are now ready to play/record audio on that track.
from now on this track represented as an audio channelstrip that contains all necessary content that maybe relevant on that track, all visible in the sequencer mixer on the left.

note : you can go on with busses like that too, having the possibility to use them as group channels, or as fx returns.
once created like upper described and visible as a track in the sequencer (therefore visible in the sequencer mixer)
you could easily assign the send of any track to that bus, f.e. containing a send fx, therefore the bus is an fx return wich also has it own sends,
being then able to give the fx return another send fx.
f.e. :
bus 1 contains a delay.
bus 2 contains a reverb.
want the delay in general to have a little reverb ?
simply assign the send 1 of bus 1 to bus 2, raise it a bit :
voila, cpu saved ... !

or you might want to summ a group of drumtracks .
select the tracks in the arrange, set the output to bus 3, insert a compressor, and after that an eq, to compensate bass loss.
want a little reverb on theese summed, compressed and eqed signals ?
just assign the send 1 of that bus 3 to bus 2, rais it a bit, and the summarized signal has reverb on it ...
and so on.
easy.
still endless possibilities.

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in addition :

the whole sequencer mixer should be available as a seperate window (trackmixer window), containing all tracks that are created in the sequencerwindow.
the selected track in the sequencer window should be marked (maybe covered with a selectable colour) in the trackmixer window and allways in focus.
the trackmixer should be configurable in what generally to show, f.e. if i want to see only vsti and audiochannels, i `d like to switch off the visibility of, say,
the bus tracks that are in the sequencer window (wich are there to eventually being automated).
the trackmixer should be openalble multiple.
f.e. i open 2 trackmixers.
one i place upper right in the monitor, one lower right.
the upper one contains only the vsti and the audio tracks, and the lower one contains the bus/output tracks.
the trackmixer should have a switchable "content-link".
f.e. i want to select a vsti-track in the sequencer. the upper trackmixer should follow that selection, showing me the mixerchannel accordingly.
the busses and outputs i dont want to let follow the lower trackmixer, as they should be allways in focus.

editors :

the editors should be linkable.
all editors should be able to stay open at the same time.
f.e. i have open :
the sequencer window, a piano roll editor and an event/list editor.
they should stay open, being linked to the selection i do in the sequencerwindow, being able to select a midi part, and the editors should show me
the content accordingly.

screen layouts :

there should be an option for saving/recalling screen layouts.
the screen layouts should be recallable via key command.
this is very powerful with the editors, and for creating multiple workspaces.
every window should be stored in these layouts.

envelopes :

the envelopes should be able to be used for controlling every continous parameter (of course no velocity ... , as theese are very poweful.

vst/i editor windows (guis) :

they should have a bypass button for easy a/b comparsion.

parts/audioparts in sequencer :

i up to now diddn`t find any way to expand a part from the left to the left.
very needed if i want to reset, f.e., a controller to zero before the midinote actually begins to play.

sequencer window :

when i want to insert an audiofile vial the sample insert dialog box, i`d like to audiotion it first.

why no stepless vertical zooming of individual tracks ?

why no vertical zooming in general ?

why no vertical zooming in audio parts, both, regions and lower reference window (lower overview-section) ?

how about a global track offset- delay (no fx delay !) in samples, + and - ?
this is very needed when you want to delay a whole track, but don`t want to have it displayed on the parts,
as you mostly want to have them visible on the grid ...
for all kinds of tracks, midi, audio ...etc ....

all windows :

why is there no collapse down option for all windows ? only for the mainwindow i see one.

main window :

why is there no option to select all objects/comps via rubberband ?
it is very hard to allways have to select them individually in order to move them.

how about some kind of makros (only visualisation) ?
could make it easier to overview bigger projects.

how about text objects for headlining a group of objects/comps ?

general :

plugin delay compensation on all mixer related things ...

mixerwindows in general :

freely resizable levelsection (both, vu meters and level sliders) ?


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ok, thats enough for now ... i know, there will be more, but theese are the most important ones to me ...
of course i might be alone with theese wishes, but it`s worth a try ...
however, i hope this is somehow useful for you, jorgen (and the users) ...
and again :
theese are only suggestions !
i only waste my time with this because i think that ext deserves to become the best sequencer ever.
all the pro sequencers are going in the wrong direction, imo ... ext is very close to beat them all ...
and i know them all ...

my deepest respect to you, jorgen. seriously.


kind regards,

[brok landers]

and did you read through the FR-list before you made that list?

yes i did.
and allthough some things are kind of close to what i suggest, my suggestions are mostly based one on the other, therefore i had to explain what i mean.
what i suggest here is all a little different from what is in the fr list (as far as i can see)...
however, you don`t have to read it actually, don`t you ?

reg,

[jens]

why no stepless vertical zooming of individual tracks ?

why no vertical zooming in general ?

I see we'll become friends

this topic has already been discussed extensively and Jorgen has made a definite statement.

tracks will have one (bigger) vertical size and that's it!

(thanks, Jorgen )

[jens]

when i want to insert an audiofile vial the sample insert dialog box, i`d like to audiotion it first.

then left click on it in the browser

[jens]

i up to now diddn`t find any way to expand a part from the left to the left.

[jens]

the sequencer window, a piano roll editor and an event/list editor.

here's something which isn't too obvious:

in the midi-editor you can drag the border left from the piano-roll to the right and TATA - here's your event-list

[swivel]

I'm not sure I'm 100% understanding your suggestion here, but would the main window not become a hopeless mess if you had to add all your vst's and parts there?

About the BUSes, Nicfit posted a great tip about how to add buses in the sequencer a little while back. Basically:
1) add a midi track
2) right-click the midi track, go to output->add->vst->energyXTE.
3) delete the midi track

the energyXTE bus remains! so you can assign any audio output in the sequencer to it with whatever FX chain you want in the energyXTE instance.

Before I knew about this trick, I had a mess of FX comp's in the main window...but using these buses in the sequencer I was able to dramatically simplify things...kind of the reverse of your idea I guess

[plastique]

About the BUSes, Nicfit posted a great tip about how to add buses in the sequencer a little while back. Basically:
1) add a midi track
2) right-click the midi track, go to output->add->vst->energyXTE.
3) delete the midi track

the energyXTE bus remains! so you can assign any audio output in the sequencer to it with whatever FX chain you want in the energyXTE instance.

Before I knew about this trick, I had a mess of FX comp's in the main window...but using these buses in the sequencer I was able to dramatically simplify things...kind of the reverse of your idea I guess

<disclaimer>i wanted to make an own topic about busses but i don't have the time at the moment so i thought i add to your post what i initially had already prepared as a part </disclaimer>

to a good effect is if you use multi-in/-out ext plugins so you can create a few busses at once and so have a rather nice overview .
btw , those busses can be used as sends , fx busses or as a master bus (or something else) .


i made two schemes to show how those bus plugins can look like (these are really basic , but yet very expandable) and how they are connected in the sequencer
(you simply route the tracks inside the seq to the bus instead of the master out):

4 fx busses :


example model in ext :


3 fx busses , one dry , plus master


example model in ext :

[brok landers]

I'm not sure I'm 100% understanding your suggestion here, but would the main window not become a hopeless mess if you had to add all your vst's and parts there?

you`re missunderstanding this i think.
you don`t have the vsti`s on the mainwindow.
you create a generic comp on the main window.
then you define it via rightclick > properties to what it should "hold" (in that case a vsti).
then you are able to select this kind of prepared "cup" in the sequencer window as a track,
wich then can be filled with the "coffee".
you only design it that way in order prepare the "generic comp" to get that "shape" of a "cup"
that then can provide all necessary contentto be filled with "coffee" in the most perfect way.
you, so to speak, prepare the car that you bought for
being able to offroad. you got the car allready. but you have to tweak (define special things) that it perfectly suits to your needs for that particular situation. when the startshoot of the offroad race comes, you are prepared and ready to use that car for what you´ve prepared it for ....
so :
1. no need to wiring (therefore a more nonconfusing overview especially in bigger projects,
as the connection is made in the sequencerwindow;
click on the track in the sequencerwindow and you know all you need to know)
2. no need to create the vsti itself.

f.e. creating 10 "generic comps".
prepare those via rightclick > properties > vsti to be able to be used as a complete vsti channelstrip in the sequencerwindow.
you now know with one look on the mainwindow, that you created the possibility to use 10 vsti´s in the sequencer, wich are perfectly integrated, no matter wich vsti you prefer to use today (wich of course could be different all the time).
you could save it to default WITHOUT having the need to place a vsti into the sequencer only to see that you might not want to use it that time, but another, wich you then have to setup from scratch all the time.
in my way you open your one time created default song, and just open a vsti in a trackmixer.
one click and you are able to play, record or whatever. no need to set up all again.
understand now ?
i`d like to prepare everything as generic as possible, so that, if i start to work, my workspace is prepared as best as it can be for every situation/type of work.
no need to set up the stuff again and again and again, when changing the type of work.
flexibility meets easieness and perfect overview.
you created your workspace, so there`s noone els who knows it better than you ... you feel comftable with it, cause its you who buildt it. you are "at home" ...
if things are not easy you dont do them.
even if the possibility is there.
thats my experiance with all users so far (including me)

reg,

[brok landers]

the sequencer window, a piano roll editor and an event/list editor.

here's something which isn't too obvious:

in the midi-editor you can drag the border left from the piano-roll to the right and TATA - here's your event-list

yes, i know, but it is only for midi ... i`d like to have it as a seperate editor window, and i want it to be responsable for _all_ content of the arrange, i.e. position of audiofiles, envelopes etc ...

reg,

[jens]

the sequencer window, a piano roll editor and an event/list editor.

here's something which isn't too obvious:

in the midi-editor you can drag the border left from the piano-roll to the right and TATA - here's your event-list

yes, i know, but it is only for midi ... i`d like to have it as a seperate editor window, and i want it to be responsable for _all_ content of the arrange, i.e. position of audiofiles, envelopes etc ...

reg,

o.k. I see - no offense, mate, but I really hope Jorgen doesn't spent any precious coding-time on this at least until all important features are implemented (well and actually also all the not so important one) and until all bugs are fixed...

- well then he should actually do a long holiday, play halflife2 (or probably HL5 by then ) for a few months, spend more time with his missus whatever - and if he really wants it then - why not - I'm not objecting to this idea

[Caleb]

yes, i know, but it is only for midi ... i`d like to have it as a seperate editor window, and i want it to be responsable for _all_ content of the arrange, i.e. position of audiofiles, envelopes etc ...

reg,

And I'm guessing you want it as an editor rather than just a viewer as it is now.

Caleb