One Synth Challenge #74: DEXED (Jasinski Wins!)

[Chris-S]

Yeah, we urgently need new community patches.

[fluffy_little_something]

I have no idea how to make sounds with this...I don't know FM synthesis and there isn't a user manual. Maybe I didn't drink enough cough syrup?

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi ... /DX7E1.pdf

page 9

[Parduz]

A question:
a whole lot of the DX7 sounds NEEDS some good effects to really shine. Since Dexed outputs are dry as a camel .... head, are we sure that the "no-chorus/flanger/modulation" rule is needed for this OSC?
Could'nt we (or just bjporter) name a single free chorus or multieffect VST we could use to wet a bit the sounds?

[wagtunes]

A question:
a whole lot of the DX7 sounds NEEDS some good effects to really shine. Since Dexed outputs are dry as a camel .... head, are we sure that the "no-chorus/flanger/modulation" rule is needed for this OSC?
Could'nt we (or just bjporter) name a single free chorus or multieffect VST we could use to wet a bit the sounds?

You can get some very raw and gritty sounds out of FM synthesis. That and a simple delay and you'll be surprised how great it can sound. I still stand by the no chorus/flanger rule. FM synthesis is a little tougher than most others simply because it's so different in architecture. But that's fine. This is where we separate the men from the boys and I have no problem with that.

After I finish my track, which I'm hoping to do sometime next week, if I have time, I'll write up a brief FM primer specifically for the Dexed with the key ingredients for getting "rich" and "interesting" sounds out of it and not that bell like crap that essentially signaled the death of FM synthesis because it was all done to death. If I heard one more Rhodes simulation I swear, I was ready to throw my radio out a window. FM synthesis is so much more than the junk I grew up with on the radio.

Having said all that, if BJ wants to alter the rules for this synth, that's up to him. But if he does, quite honestly, I'm dropping out. As am old timer who started during the days of the DX7, this might be my one chance to maybe have an edge in this month's contest. Considering how pitiful I've been doing, it's nice to know that maybe I have a chance. And after I write up the primer (again, if I have the time) a lot of people will see how easy it is to get some really funky sounds out of FM synthesis.

My 2 cents on the subject, for whatever they're worth.

The rest is up to the guys who run this shindig.

[fluffy_little_something]

I suggest Tal's free chorus because it sounds good, yet can't be abused for more radical sound manipulation.

Anyway, with FM the strange thing is that I understand how it works, but somehow I just don't have any feel for it. With subtractive I know exactly which effect each control has and how to use them in order to create a specific sound. With FM I don't have a clue, it is more like playing the lottery It is so little intuitive, or maybe just a matter of experience, dunno...

[wagtunes]

I suggest Tal's free chorus because it sounds good, yet can't be abused for more radical sound manipulation.

Anyway, with FM the strange thing is that I understand how it works, but somehow I just don't have any feel for it. With subtractive I know exactly which effect each control has and how to use them in order to create a specific sound. With FM I don't have a clue, it is more like playing the lottery It is so little intuitive, or maybe just a matter of experience, dunno...

That's exactly what it is, experience. Think about the first time you ever looked at a subtractive synth. Did you know what effect the filter cutoff would have depending on LP or HP mode? Did you know what the different LFO shapes did and how they affected the sound? Did you know what the hell to do with EG2, 3 and 4?

Everything is experience. Nobody just knows synthesis. My first synth, which was a Moog back in 79, all I did was turn dials and move sliders. I had NO clue what I was doing. Made a lot of cool sci fi sounds but nothing musically useful.

If this synth was around during the days of FM synthesis, everybody would know how to use it. But because FM has essentially been abandoned by the masses for years, it's like an alien invader. Few people know what to make of it.

Like I said, this one's going to separate the men from the boys and I for one have no problem with that. Only thing that'll sink me in this contest is my choice of song, which usually does me in anyway. But at least it won't be because of sound design.

[fluffy_little_something]

I agree that is is mostly experience, but I think the subtractive system is easier to understand: you start out with the full signal (of which there are not even half a dozen common ones to choose from and you don't have to understand why each sounds the way it does) and then you take something away with the filter (most of the time an LP filter). With FM you have to know what you are doing and you need a certain understanding of physics.

[EnGee]

I also don't know exactly about the effects allowed and those not allowed. It is confusing little bit because sometimes there is a thin line between different effects (like delay and chorus). Anyway, I appreciate any clarification about the effects included in the DAW.

Let's see for example in Studio one, the effects are:

Channel Processing
>>> Channel Strip (EQ, dynamics, and level)
>>> Fat Channel (Filter, EQ, compressor, Gate, Limiter)

Amplifier and Distortion Modeling
>>> Ampire XT
>>> RedlightDist

Dynamics Processing
>>> Compressor
>>> Expander
>>> Gate
>>> Limiter
>>> Multiband Dynamics
>>> Tricomp

Modulation
>>> Auto Filter
>>> Chorus
>>> Flanger
>>> Phaser
>>> X-Trem

Delay and Reverb
>>> Analog Delay
>>> Beat Delay
>>> Groove Delay
>>> Mixverb
>>> Open AIR
>>> Room Reverb

Stereo Imaging
>>> Binaural Pan
>>> Dual Pan

I suppose all the effects under the modulation section are not allowed, right?

What about other sections especially Modulating EQ or Frequency or Resonant?

Are the distortion effects allowed?

Is the modulation in the DAW allowed? I mean the automation tracks for the synth parameters and/or the effects inserted.

Sorry, many questions! but this is the first time I'm thinking to use one synth for everything + restricted effects.

[wagtunes]

I also don't know exactly about the effects allowed and those not allowed. It is confusing little bit because sometimes there is a thin line between different effects (like delay and chorus). Anyway, I appreciate any clarification about the effects included in the DAW.

Let's see for example in Studio one, the effects are:

Channel Processing
>>> Channel Strip (EQ, dynamics, and level)
>>> Fat Channel (Filter, EQ, compressor, Gate, Limiter)

Amplifier and Distortion Modeling
>>> Ampire XT
>>> RedlightDist

Dynamics Processing
>>> Compressor
>>> Expander
>>> Gate
>>> Limiter
>>> Multiband Dynamics
>>> Tricomp

Modulation
>>> Auto Filter
>>> Chorus
>>> Flanger
>>> Phaser
>>> X-Trem

Delay and Reverb
>>> Analog Delay
>>> Beat Delay
>>> Groove Delay
>>> Mixverb
>>> Open AIR
>>> Room Reverb

Stereo Imaging
>>> Binaural Pan
>>> Dual Pan

I suppose all the effects under the modulation section are not allowed, right?

What about other sections especially Modulating EQ or Frequency or Resonant?

Are the distortion effects allowed?

Is the modulation in the DAW allowed? I mean the automation tracks for the synth parameters and/or the effects inserted.

Sorry, many questions! but this is the first time I'm thinking to use one synth for everything + restricted effects.

Essentially, nothing that colors the sound is allowed.

Filters, Flangers, Chorus, Distortion, etc.

Reverb, Delay, Compression, Limiting, are okay but as long as they are freely available plugs. Nothing that you had to pay for. Built in plugs that came with your specific DAW are okay.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Chris-S]

Instead of chorus u can use several detuned instances (or detuned stacks within one instance).

This together with allowed external Delay and Reverb is enough to create rich sounds.

So I'm against allowing external modulation.

[EnGee]

Ok thanks for clearing this out.

Then, EQ is allowed but modulating its parameters is not allowed. Right? So, as I understand, it is for just cutting or boosting a frequencies in a static way.

Now, how about the modulation of the synth/effects parameters in automation tracks?

[wagtunes]

Ok thanks for clearing this out.

Then, EQ is allowed but modulating its parameters is not allowed. Right? So, as I understand, it is for just cutting or boosting a frequencies in a static way.

Now, how about the modulation of the synth/effects parameters in automation tracks?

I'm not sure about EQ. I was under the impression that EQ wasn't allowed either as it can color the sound if you use it in an extreme way, which is certainly possible. You'll have to clarify this with BJ. I've yet to use EQ in any of the OSCs but double check with him.

Modulation of the built in synth FX is fine.

[EnGee]

Thanks,

I think I got the big picture from reading the Rules. I think Dynamic effects allowed but not to colour the sound (like EQ frequency ..etc). I also don't think the distortion effects are allowed.

So I hope I will get some answers from BJ later about the distortion effects and the modulation of synth parameters (as Midi CC controls mapped to synth parameters).

[fluffy_little_something]

All external effects should be forbidden, only reverb on the master allowed

[MTLE]

This Synth is very CPU/RAM friendly. You can layer things unlimited to emulate chorus or other FX. You have still Delay and Reverbs to beautify your track. We had other synths sounding dry as this one. Be creative, it will work without changing the rules.