Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[wagtunes]

What are you whining about? At the end of the day you pay pretty much the same as Europeans, after taking VAT and currencies into account.

No, it's not even close. It's at least a $34 difference.

pm me your paypal email and i'll send you $34, if it gets us back on track (and you promise to stop whining on this thread)...

Oh don't worry. I'm done. And I am going to write to Tone 2 and tell them what I think of their pricing policy under no uncertain terms.

You guys can actually get back to talking about the synth. Sounds like another great one (I do own 2 of theirs) that I won't be buying on principle.

And with that, I am out of here.

[fluffy_little_something]

What are you whining about? At the end of the day you pay pretty much the same as Europeans, after taking VAT and currencies into account.

No, it's not even close. It's at least a $34 difference.

Like the Euro price, the dollar price includes VAT, which as an American you don't have to pay, though, if I am not mistaken. If it is automatically charged, maybe you can reclaim it, like when you pay a product in the EU as an American.

If Tone2 charge VAT and don't pass it on to the German tax authorities, it would constitute a crime. And German tax authorities would find it odd to receive VAT from American customers, I suppose.

Maybe it is not even a Tone2 issue, but has to do with the payment system they use.

[Ingonator]

Does anyone know anything more about this?

"This synthesizer has been designed in a way that it can be expanded easily. The open structure allows you, us and 3rd party developers to extend it with our own content."

It sounds as though there could be an SDK available to add functionality which would be very interesting.

that sounds interesting

While i do not really know many details i am sure that this will hardly mean that customers will be able to do changes to the plugin itself.
FWIW this was mentioned at the same place from where you quoted from:
"It will be extended with new features and additional sounds regularly."

In the past "expansions" at Tone2 usually meant additional waveforms, wavetables, sample content and also new skins that were included with certain soundsets. With recent Tone2 synths (or as updates like in Saurus 2) it was also possible to load/save the Arpeggiator/step sequencer settings as files (as *.arp files) which is also possible in Icarus. Icarus also offers saving FX templates.
This means that future Icarus "expansions" could contain custom waveforms, wavetables, Arp/sequencer presets and FX templates.

Of course as Icraus is based on wavetables and also support loading custom tables this could be used to expand the sound options in the future. As the wavetables and wavetvorms are used as WAV files it is a more "open" format than havimg a synth specific format. It is alraedy possible to direcrtly load wavetables taht are saved in a Serum compatible format (which mostly means having a 2048 samples size per single waveform). With other WAV formats it is still possible to import wavetables úsing the Resyntheis.

Saving wavetables in Icarus is done as WAV files too (again with 2048 samples per waveform) and not in a synth specific format so those could be used in other wavetable synths like e.g. UVI Falcon and Serum (in Falcon you have to add the waveform size at the end of the wavetable name, e.g. "Wavetable 001_2048.wav"). I was also able to laod Icraus wavetables in e.g. Waldorf Nave using the Resynthesis feature.

In future Icarus updates it could be also possible to directly load certain synth specific wavetable formats (like UVI Falcon could already load wavetables in the DUNE 2 format).

[jsp1979]

As pointed out, there's no difficulty just telling share-it to put your price in Euros and then just pay that. I tried it on Nemesis and it sent 149 Euros to paypal as the total (and I'm in the U.S.).

Crisis averted.

[fluffy_little_something]

Or buy it used on the market place forum for 100 bucks or less

[mhog]

wagtunes (Jul 29) "AiR blew up my Cubase to the point where I had to do a system restore"
wagtunes (Aug 01)"AiR works fine in Cubase"

wagtunes (Jul 30) "why would I be stupid enough to install another AiR product after such a horrible experience".
wagtunes (Aug 09) "Holy Crap! I did get AiR Xpand just recently, I just might take advantage of this 91$ AiR offer".


Why don't you write to Tone2 and explain the situation? It would be useful to all.

wagtunes (5:41 am) "Yeah, like they're gonna change their pricing policy because I write to them. LMAO."
wagtunes (7:21 am) "I am going to write to Tone2 and tell them what I think"

[thetechnobear]

out of interest only (since I'm in Europe, so doesn't affect me)
... did you go through the full checkout process, and was the indicated charging at the end, still inc VAT?

the website, clearly indicates tax may change the price during the checkout process. (see below)
also, it sounds more like a share-it problem than tone 2, as they are the ones doing the e-commerce side.
(I wonder if the $199 usd is inclusive of VAT too, so might be lower if you change countries... I'm sure there is still some variance, to protect from FX fluctuations, but seems quite high)

Its certainly something I would talk to the vendor about, before throwing my toys out of the pram... to see if there is an error, or some reasoning behind it.
(frankly the idea, that tone 2 want to make more money out of US customers, doesn't seem to make much sense)

Adapting sales tax/VAT when country of delivery is changed

If the country of delivery is changed during the order process, the sales tax/VAT rate shown here may also change.
Note: We are required by law to display final prices (equal to the product price plus any applicable VAT) in the order process. Under certain circumstances, if, for instance, a VAT ID is entered during the order process for a transaction between two companies, the total amount displayed may be reduced by the exact VAT amount.

[Astralp]

Does anyone know anything more about this?

"This synthesizer has been designed in a way that it can be expanded easily. The open structure allows you, us and 3rd party developers to extend it with our own content."

It sounds as though there could be an SDK available to add functionality which would be very interesting.

that sounds interesting

While i do not really know many details i am sure that this will hardly mean that customers will be able to do changes to the plugin itself.
FWIW this was mentioned at the same place from where you quoted from:
"It will be extended with new features and additional sounds regularly."

In the past "expansions" at Tone2 usually meant additional waveforms, wavetables, sample content and also new skins that were included with certain soundsets. With recent Tone2 synths (or as updates like in Saurus 2) it was also possible to load/save the Arpeggiator/step sequencer settings as files (as *.arp files) which is also possible in Icarus. Icarus also offers saving FX templates.
This means that future Icarus "expansions" could contain custom waveforms, wavetables, Arp/sequencer presets and FX templates.

Of course as Icraus is based on wavetables and also support loading custom tables this could be used to expand the sound options in the future. As the wavetables and wavetvorms are used as WAV files it is a more "open" format than havimg a synth specific format. It is alraedy possible to direcrtly load wavetables taht are saved in a Serum compatible format (which mostly means having a 2048 samples size per single waveform). With other WAV formats it is still possible to import wavetables úsing the Resyntheis.

Saving wavetables in Icarus is done as WAV files too (again with 2048 samples per waveform) and not in a synth specific format so those could be used in other wavetable synths like e.g. UVI Falcon and Serum (in Falcon you have to add the waveform size at the end of the wavetable name, e.g. "Wavetable 001_2048.wav"). I was also able to laod Icraus wavetables in e.g. Waldorf Nave using the Resynthesis feature.

In future Icarus updates it could be also possible to directly load certain synth specific wavetable formats (like UVI Falcon could already load wavetables in the DUNE 2 format).

Thanks Ingo, I thought it was a slim chance, looks like a great synth though.

[Ingonator]

While Icarus includes a ton of other features one of my favorite features that i used in many of my own patches are the Stereo Hypersaw Unison modes. Opposing to the Virus TI on which the Hypersaw modes are based on those Unison modes work with all waveforms.
The TI only included "normal" Hypersaws without additional stereo spread and those modes are included too.

Before i sold my Virus TI desktop last year i had compared the Hyperasaw of Electra 2 to the TI and it 100% nailed the sound for me. I had also made a bunch of samples of the Hypersaw at different settings (mostly different detune amounts).
When i got Icarus i compared the Hypersaw there to both Electra 2 and the samples from the TI and again this really seems to nail it.

One great thing about that Hypersaw is that it does not produce phasing, even at high detuning amounts (which could easily happen when using multiple detuned Oscs instead). Mostly if you use those Unison modes, especially the Stereo versions, ther is no need to use an additional Chorus/Ensemble effect. It is also not always necesary to use the modes with the maximum amount of voices. In many cases use the 4 or 6 voice modes seem to be enough.
Anotehr great thing is that you could use different Unison modes for each Osc which usually does not work with synths that just got a global Unison.
Those Unison modes in Icarus also do not seem to be such CPU killers like those in several other synths.

Of course there are also lots of other Unison modes in Icarus and the "Supersaw" mode indeed seems to soudn close to the Roland Supersaw while again in Icarus this works with all waveforms, not just the Saw.

The Stack modes in the Unison modes allow adding e.g. an octave, a Fifths etc. without having to add one of teh main Oscs to do this. There are also modes taht combine an Unison with adding another Octave (again without having to use another main oscillator for this). Most Stack modes still seem to alow using detuned waveforms with using the Detune knob (while in some of those you have to set teh Detune knob to high values or maximum to hear the additional detuning).
Dedicated Flanger modes are included in the modes too (that could be used independent of the Flanger effects that are included in the FX section).
The "interval" mode will play a single oscillator but the Detune knob will allow using different harmonics.

Attached you find a list of teh Unison modes in Icarus:

Icarus_Unsion modes.png

[pdxindy]

While Icarus includes a ton of other features one of my favorite features that i used in many of my own patches are the Stereo Hypersaw Unison modes. Opposing to the Virus TI on which the Hypersaw modes are based on those Unison modes work with all waveforms.
The TI only included "normal" Hypersaws without additional stereo spread and those modes are included too.

Before i sold my Virus TI desktop last year i had compared the Hyperasaw of Electra 2 to the TI and it 100% nailed the sound for me. I had also made a bunch of samples of the Hypersaw at different settings (mostly different detune amounts).
When i got Icarus i compared the Hypersaw there to both Electra 2 and the samples from the TI and again this really seems to nail it.

One great thing about that Hypersaw is that it does not produce phasing, even at high detuning amounts (which could easily happen when using multiple detuned Oscs instead). Mostly if you use those Unison modes, especially the Stereo versions, ther is no need to use an additional Chorus/Ensemble effect. It is also not always necesary to use the modes with the maximum amount of voices. In many cases use the 4 or 6 voice modes seem to be enough.
Anotehr great thing is that you could use different Unison modes for each Osc which usually does not work with synths that just got a global Unison.
Those Unison modes in Icarus also do not seem to be such CPU killers like those in several other synths.

Of course there are also lots of other Unison modes in Icarus and the "Supersaw" mode indeed seems to soudn close to the Roland Supersaw while again in Icarus this works with all waveforms, not just the Saw.

The Stack modes in the Unison modes allow adding e.g. an octave, a Fifths etc. without having to add one of teh main Oscs to do this. There are also modes taht combine an Unison with adding another Octave (again without having to use another main oscillator for this). Most Stack modes still seem to alow using detuned waveforms with using the Detune knob (while in some of those you have to set teh Detune knob to high values or maximum to hear the additional detuning).
Dedicated Flanger modes are included in the modes too (that could be used independent of the Flanger effects that are included in the FX section).
The "interval" mode will play a single oscillator but the Detune knob will allow using different harmonics.

Attached you find a list of teh Unison modes in Icarus:

Icarus_Unsion modes.png

Thanks for the info... there are so many options I have not even tried most of them yet!!

[Ingonator]

Thanks for the info... there are so many options I have not even tried most of them yet!!

Actually i have not used all features too yet and i got Icarus since 7 months now...

Seems to be impossible that someone could fully explore Icarus with just a few days of trying the demo and even a week of testing it every all day does not seem to be enough for that.
I am also sure that many of those who decided to skip Icarus have just scratched the surface of what is possible.

Of course it would be possible to have even more features but those that are already included could keep you busy for a very long time.

[Klinke1]

-No mod drag 'n drop and amount indication
-many tabs.. and you cannot flip though them
(flip through= Hold left mouse-button and slide over the tabs to make them visible)
-No random for LFOs
-stepper presets? FX presets? Maybe an option to turn of delay/reverb or all Fx!? ...Env presets.?

-..The preset-browser's big "Exit" button should be on the left side of the GUI.

Funny: Several things e.g. EQ turn itself On/Off when any knob is twisted.

[Ingonator]

-No mod drag 'n drop and amount indication
-many tabs.. and you cannot flip though them
(flip through= Hold left mouse-button and slide over the tabs to make them visible)
-No random for LFOs
-stepper presets? FX presets? Maybe an option to turn of delay/reverb or all Fx!? ...Env presets.?

-..The preset-browser's big "Exit" button should be on the left side of the GUI.

Funny: Several things e.g. EQ turn itself On/Off when any knob is twisted.

Modulation:
Icarus has enough options to add modulation including some dedicated amount knobs (e.g. filter env amount, LFO1 to Wave amount, etc.).

Tabs:
Actually most major features are not in tabs and even in parts where you got tabs you still see the reset of the main GUI. A synths wit has many features as Icarus is impossible to do without having to use tabs.
Besides that other synths like e.g. Serum got tabs too or don't need it at some places as it simply has less features (e.g. the two full featured filters in icarus).

FX section:
If you got to the TOOL menu and clikc on "Load FX template" you could load presets from the file dialog that is opened then (*.eff files save in a "Icarus effects" sub folder). This loads templates für one or multiple effects and feedback setings etc.. You couls also save such files yourself.
Same is also possible with the ARP/Sequencer where you could load and save presets files (*.arp files).

Step LFO:
There are no presets bit you could easily draw step if you holf the left mouse buton and then draw the steps.
This way you could also create custom LFO waveforms even if this consists of just 16 steps. The Shape knob in the Step LFO also seems to adjust between rough changes of te steps and a smoother transition.

Env presets:
Nice idea but not really necessary IMO. Most sections like Osc, Filter, FX, Arp and Matrix got a Reset option so you could also use the "Template" factory presets or presets from certain categories and then reset the sections you want to create your own patches based on this.

Browser:
I do not see a problem wit hthe Exit button at the curtrent position.

Random LFOs:
If you click at the LFO shape you open teh drop-down menu for teh LFO shapes/modes and there are 5 Random modes in the list that coudl be further tweaked/shaped with the "Shape" knob in teh LFOs.
In all LFO modes the "Shape" knob allows to further adjust the current shape (in several names of the LFO modes(shapes it is also mentioned which shapes are used for motphing).

EQ On/Off:
Why should the EQ not turn on if you cahange a value? Seems to make sense for me.
BTW same is true if you change a knob in a decativated Oscillator or a deactivated filter.

[OneOfManyPauls]

No random for LFOs

true, the lfo "random" modes are just repeated step-like lfos - but we do get random as a mod-matrix source, which refreshes on note press/new arp note - so can still do most of the classic random lfo sounds eg random filter cutoff for each played note.

-stepper presets? FX presets? Maybe an option to turn of delay/reverb or all Fx!? ...Env presets.?

envelopes? we're not talking MSEGs here - do you really need presets for an AHDSR envelope?

the "on" button above the mix 3 knob does turn on/off all fx.

[OneOfManyPauls]

although lfo "shape" isn't a mod-matrix destination, "phase" is - so we can have one "random" lfo modulating the phase of another "random" lfo. By manually setting the shape knobs (to give more "random" steps per lfo cycle), and using the speed knobs (to slow them down so those steps last as long as we need), this can create very long lengths between pattern repeats. Not ideal, but the end result is as near as makes no difference.

that said, with the higher shape values and slowing the lfo speed down, it's already giving long enough random pattern lengths that it won't make any real world difference that it's eventually repeating eg shape = 80, clock =1/32 CLK (icarus notation) is equivalent to a 128 step random cycle playing at 1/2 CLK - thats a 15+ second repeat time at 120bpm. Just throw in a random>lfo phase in the mod matrix to randomize the start position on keypress and it's golden.