Cod or Haddock?spirit wrote:Fish
Can of Worms Now Open: Mac vs. PC
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- KVRAF
- 1959 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester
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- KVRAF
- 24407 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Don't worry. W7 will be supported for at LEAST two more years. Remember how long XP was around. It will be even longer for W7 I think - since it's much better than XP ever was.Xenobt wrote:It sounds so far that Windows 7 is stable, but isn't it a bit long in the tooth? I'd hate to jump onto another listing ship...
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The_Hidden_Goose The_Hidden_Goose https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10878 - KVRian
- 945 posts since 8 Dec, 2003 from Birmingham-ish, UK (Tamworth, but shhh!)
Don't forget the major reason that xp was supported for so long because Vista was a complete failure (despite the fact that I've had it on my current system for 3+ years without needing a single reinstall - used to be at least once a year previously!)
Not sure how well Win8 is doing - I've heard good and bad - but the longevity of Win7 support beyond what they intend at the moment may depend on it.
Having said that, I'll be buying a monster next month (nearly payday, yeah!) and I'll be having Win7 on it. I don't want the hassle of having to relearn the O/S before I can delve into what I want to do with it, and I've got no touchscreen or pad or what-av-u that'll benefit from the metro thing.
But back on topic - I've never been a mac person, for some (if not all) of the obvious reason usually given, so I don't know how smoothly a move to or from might be. I've always been reticent about changing - even when I heard my DAW are finally looking at Mac version. I'm just too set in my ways, and don't want the hassle of relearning the basics.
Not sure how well Win8 is doing - I've heard good and bad - but the longevity of Win7 support beyond what they intend at the moment may depend on it.
Having said that, I'll be buying a monster next month (nearly payday, yeah!) and I'll be having Win7 on it. I don't want the hassle of having to relearn the O/S before I can delve into what I want to do with it, and I've got no touchscreen or pad or what-av-u that'll benefit from the metro thing.
But back on topic - I've never been a mac person, for some (if not all) of the obvious reason usually given, so I don't know how smoothly a move to or from might be. I've always been reticent about changing - even when I heard my DAW are finally looking at Mac version. I'm just too set in my ways, and don't want the hassle of relearning the basics.
Q. Why is a mouse when it spins?
A. The higher the fewer.
A. The higher the fewer.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35431 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Nah, that's not really true. XP, brought out in 2001, had a 6 year lifespan before Vista was released in 2007, but there was only two years between Vista (2007) and Windows 7 (2009).The_Hidden_Goose wrote:Don't forget the major reason that xp was supported for so long because Vista was a complete failure
What MS call 'mainstream support' for XP was ended in 2009, so they basically only supported XP for an additional two years from the release of its successor, Vista. In comparison, Vista's support ran till 2012, three years after the release of its successor.
(Im aware of the 'extended support' for XP till 2014, but that's somewhat diffrent and anyway is staged at 3 year intervals for each subsequent product, so Vista, for example has extended support till 2017)
The length of time XP was supported was entirely down to the basic longevity of the product, ie the fact that it took that long before there was a successor.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 3220 posts since 4 Jan, 2005
Vista came out before RAM got cheaper , so if you didn't have 2, 3, or 4gb you were sucking wind . I dont have Vista but Ive seen some laptops with 512 mb ram trying to run Vista , epic fail . Then Windows7 came out , RAM was cheaper and it was hard to find anything less than 2gb RAM in it . Windows 8.1 is supposed to come out soon ? I wonder if they will put the start menu back ? From what I've seen they kind of are but not really . So Windows8 comes out and we still use desktops and laptops that are not touch capable , and tablets are not as powerful as a desktop still . Im fine with Microsoft making a tablet interface and an App store they do have to compete with Google and Apple , but when you go to desktop mode it should be just like XP , Vista , and 7 . What a mess still .
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- KVRAF
- 24407 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Win 8.1 (Windows Blue) IS coming out because people wanted the Start menu back and no touchscreen shit on their desktop OS - IIRC.
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
I think ultimately you should be able to decide for yourself.
There are only really two questions I would ask myself:
1. what is the true cost of moving to PC? Do you have a significant investment in software that will involve additional cost if you have to replace it with Windows software? Can you use any of your existing Apple hardware or upgrade over time to spread the cost?
2. How comfortable are you with Windows? If you really don't know it at all, how comfortable are you with the learning curve, and are you aware of what you might gain or lose?
Personally I use Windows based systems, but if I had the additional money I would go OSX and Apple hardware as I much prefer the experience and have less frustrations with it.
There are only really two questions I would ask myself:
1. what is the true cost of moving to PC? Do you have a significant investment in software that will involve additional cost if you have to replace it with Windows software? Can you use any of your existing Apple hardware or upgrade over time to spread the cost?
2. How comfortable are you with Windows? If you really don't know it at all, how comfortable are you with the learning curve, and are you aware of what you might gain or lose?
Personally I use Windows based systems, but if I had the additional money I would go OSX and Apple hardware as I much prefer the experience and have less frustrations with it.
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The_Hidden_Goose The_Hidden_Goose https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10878
- KVRian
- 945 posts since 8 Dec, 2003 from Birmingham-ish, UK (Tamworth, but shhh!)
I was under the impression that xp had multiple extensions due to people just not wanting Vista?
Maybe I read misleading articles back then!
Maybe I read misleading articles back then!
Q. Why is a mouse when it spins?
A. The higher the fewer.
A. The higher the fewer.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35431 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
It came out as RAM prices were getting cheaper. Vista came out in 2007, and 2006-2007 was when prices for DRA started dropping considerably.fedexnman wrote:Vista came out before RAM got cheaper , so if you didn't have 2, 3, or 4gb you were sucking wind .
http://www.neowin.net/news/memory-price ... -the-2h-07
http://www.denali.com/wordpress/index.p ... _8b_p_2007
In fact if you compare here:
http://www.jcmit.com/memoryprice.htm
RAM pricing around the 4Gb size seemed to be rising slightly by the time Win7 came out.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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The_Hidden_Goose The_Hidden_Goose https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10878
- KVRian
- 945 posts since 8 Dec, 2003 from Birmingham-ish, UK (Tamworth, but shhh!)
Good enough for me! 
Q. Why is a mouse when it spins?
A. The higher the fewer.
A. The higher the fewer.
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35431 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
The 'extended support' was indeed, erm, extended, but that's specific to business customers, (more specifically very large businesses with vast numbers of macbines and hence lots of legacy issues). As far as us normal punters go, we've had the benefit of updates on the back of that, but Vista wasnt really part of the equation as much as legacy issues.The_Hidden_Goose wrote:I was under the impression that xp had multiple extensions due to people just not wanting Vista?
Maybe I read misleading articles back then!
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 6370 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
I think Avid makes the decision for you over Win 8 - it's not officially supported or at least not yet, which suggest Win 7 at least as a starting point. IME Pro Tools is pretty consistent between OS X and Windows except for the Control-key switcharoo which is one of those things you have to deal with when switching but, as I've done the switch in both directions something like two or three times in the past 20 years, muscle memory soon takes over. However, if you're switching between work and home systems on different platforms, that could get annoying.
At this stage, I'd find using Windows for day-to-day work annoying but manageable. If it were for music/audio only, most of the interaction is with the DAW, in which case the change is kinda minimal aside from the possible driver hassle. Having said that, I've had to dig into the dark underbelly of OS X a few in the past five years so it's not like OS X is hassle free.
So the other main consideration is whether the right plug-ins are available under Windows. Altiverb, for example, is only at v6 on Windows.
And, if push comes to shove and you need a dose of OS X after trying Windows, there is always the Hackintosh route, so it's probably worth looking at hardware known to have OS X drivers.
At this stage, I'd find using Windows for day-to-day work annoying but manageable. If it were for music/audio only, most of the interaction is with the DAW, in which case the change is kinda minimal aside from the possible driver hassle. Having said that, I've had to dig into the dark underbelly of OS X a few in the past five years so it's not like OS X is hassle free.
So the other main consideration is whether the right plug-ins are available under Windows. Altiverb, for example, is only at v6 on Windows.
And, if push comes to shove and you need a dose of OS X after trying Windows, there is always the Hackintosh route, so it's probably worth looking at hardware known to have OS X drivers.
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- KVRAF
- 5913 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany
IMO a optimized PC with selected components is not to beat and the same time cheaper like a Mac. But we don't speak about a $500 computer from the discounter.
So it needs always some research (or find a guy doing this) to select good components and assemble the whole thing. It's not such a complicated thing but you know.. the are sometimes people with two left hands
I would also not use Win7 anymore. Win8 performance is excellent for DAW stuff ( cannot say something how PT is supported) and the only "black side" is eventually the new different GUI.
There are also some companies selling audio optimized computers but it depends of the country. I know only some companies here in Germany and such computer starts with 1400€ and can go near the 2000€ mark.
So it needs always some research (or find a guy doing this) to select good components and assemble the whole thing. It's not such a complicated thing but you know.. the are sometimes people with two left hands
I would also not use Win7 anymore. Win8 performance is excellent for DAW stuff ( cannot say something how PT is supported) and the only "black side" is eventually the new different GUI.
There are also some companies selling audio optimized computers but it depends of the country. I know only some companies here in Germany and such computer starts with 1400€ and can go near the 2000€ mark.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 921 posts since 14 May, 2010 from Atlanta, GA
Thanks for the input, everyone, it's given me some things to think about.
And both good questions, robojam. Most of my software will run on either platform, so system "mirroring" should be possible without additional expense. I'll get beaten up a LOT worse when I leave RTAS behind to update to 64bit Pro Tools 11. Literally thousands of dollars of plugs that their developers have been silent about updating to AAX.
I guess I've worked with Windows based machines enough that I'm not a complete stranger to the way it "thinks". But jumping back and forth between OS' on a daily basis may be a bigger mental adjustment than I'd considered. Just going between Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools in the same day gets all my keyboard shortcuts muddled!
And I've heard some folks here mention reinstalling W7 to fix problems, something that would actually be pretty scary for me. I've had to repair permissions on OSX, but it seems to be a much more contained and less dangerous operation than a complete re-install.
In fact, from some of the anecdotal stories I've read here, that seems to be a fairly common procedure when you get tech support involved. "Just re-build your whole system, and let's see what happens." Yikes!
And I buy lots of no-brainers, stupid deals, and blowouts, so how easy is it to install stuff without it affecting other plugs or their registrations? OSX makes it pretty simple, but I've read lots of questions and complaints about administrator access or lost authorizations in Windows when adding new software. But I've been around a LOOONG time. Anyone have these issues lately?
KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt
And both good questions, robojam. Most of my software will run on either platform, so system "mirroring" should be possible without additional expense. I'll get beaten up a LOT worse when I leave RTAS behind to update to 64bit Pro Tools 11. Literally thousands of dollars of plugs that their developers have been silent about updating to AAX.
I guess I've worked with Windows based machines enough that I'm not a complete stranger to the way it "thinks". But jumping back and forth between OS' on a daily basis may be a bigger mental adjustment than I'd considered. Just going between Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools in the same day gets all my keyboard shortcuts muddled!
And I've heard some folks here mention reinstalling W7 to fix problems, something that would actually be pretty scary for me. I've had to repair permissions on OSX, but it seems to be a much more contained and less dangerous operation than a complete re-install.
In fact, from some of the anecdotal stories I've read here, that seems to be a fairly common procedure when you get tech support involved. "Just re-build your whole system, and let's see what happens." Yikes!
And I buy lots of no-brainers, stupid deals, and blowouts, so how easy is it to install stuff without it affecting other plugs or their registrations? OSX makes it pretty simple, but I've read lots of questions and complaints about administrator access or lost authorizations in Windows when adding new software. But I've been around a LOOONG time. Anyone have these issues lately?
KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt