Other than inversion nomenclature

[jancivil]

quit wasting our time, excuse.

[excuse me please]

At your service, ask me anything

[jancivil]

You’ve got the poor guy bogged down wondering about position, which does exactly nothing on point. Huge waste of screen space.

You’re a rank rookie trolling its little ass off. I’m trying to convey the real deal to someone with actual questions and a desire to know.
f**k off now.

[msf sadib]

The standard depiction of inversions figures the bass like so:
Root position is 5/3 (self-explanatory); 1st inversion is 6/3, eg., F A D, 3rd and 6th from bass F; 2nd inversion is 6/4, eg., G C E, 4th and 6th from bass G. Then we can figure chord of the seventh: 1st inversion is called the 6/5 chord, abbreviated from 6/5/3, eg., F A C D; 2nd inversion is called the 4/3 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/3, eg., G B C E; 3rd inversion is called 4/2 or the 2 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/2, eg., F G B D.

Jane in the 1st inversion of Dmin7 you wrote F A C D as 6/5? Why didn't you write that as 6/2?

[jancivil]

Figured bass figures the rest of the harmony *per the bass*. That is what I’m writing.
None of A C D is 2 from the bass F.
A is 3, C is 5, D is 6 from F. 6/5/3. The business end, ie., showing the 7th and the 3rd is 6/5.

[jancivil]

So, this is a convention; we become familiar with the figures, it’s always exactly thus, so we see ”6/5” and recognize 7th chord/third in the bass at once, et al.

It’s given in coursework exercises along with either a bass part or a soprano w. the melody and you write the other 3 parts by it. W. the top line melody given, position is partly determined. Or you are given the task of determining the figured bass from an example.

[msf sadib]

Figured bass figures the rest of the harmony *per the bass*. That is what I’m writing.
None of A C D is 2 from the bass F.
A is 3, C is 5, D is 6 from F. 6/5/3. The business end, ie., showing the 7th and the 3rd is 6/5.

Sorry I wanted to write 6/3 instead of 6/2.I think my brain's gonna fall off.I'm getting lost within seconds.So why this abbreviations? How are you determining them? Only based on roots and 7th notes?

[fmr]

Figured bass figures the rest of the harmony *per the bass*. That is what I’m writing.
None of A C D is 2 from the bass F.
A is 3, C is 5, D is 6 from F. 6/5/3. The business end, ie., showing the 7th and the 3rd is 6/5.

Sorry I wanted to write 6/3 instead of 6/2.I think my brain's gonna fall off.I'm getting lost within seconds.So why this abbreviations? How are you determining them? Only based on roots and 7th notes?

No - you have always the bass written, and the figures indicate what kind of chord is to be played over that bass. The third is usually assumed, so when you have just one figure, the other is a third over the bass (IF we are using three note chords). When you have two figures like 6/4, it means you have a fourth and sixth over the bass (therefore, no third).

For seventh chords it becomes a little more tricky. If you have a 6/5 it means you have four notes - a third, a fifth and a sixth over the bass - 7th chord in first inversion. When you have 4/3, it means you have a third, a fourth and a sixth over the bass - 7th chord in the second inversion. When you have a 2, it means you have a second, a fourth and a sixth over the bass - seventh chord in the third inversion.

The relative position of the other notes to be played (other than the bass) isn't pre-determined. It's up to the player to determine the best voicing taking into account where the music comes from and where it leads to.

[lobanov]

in a modern context C6 almost always means an added sixth chord, like C E G A. in the same sort of vein as C7, or Cm7, Cmaj7, where the chord symbol is about quickly telling you what notes are in the chord.

if chords are notated in a figured bass style the 6 is really shorthand for 6/3, like: E is in the bass, G is a 3rd above E, C is a 6th above E. the 3 isn't written down because it's redundant (root position has a 3rd above the bass, and second inversion we specify it's a 4th).

the surrounding context will tell you whether it's figured bass or not, but the thing is it doesn't really exist anywhere except classical harmony textbooks, since the one (and only) thing it's good at is describing inversions in roman numeral analysis.

anyway, like lobanov says the specific inversion doesn't tell you anything about the octave or the doubling of those notes above the bass. you could play G a tenth above E, you could double the root, whatever, it's still first inversion.

Yes, thank you

[jancivil]

So why this abbreviations? How are you determining them? Only based on roots and 7th notes?

I explained 4/3 rather than 6/4 for 2nd inv 7ths above.
The determination is this: 6/5 gives you the 7th*, always a 5th (12th, 19th, ad infin) from the 3rd-in-the-bass; and it gives you the root*, always a 6th from the 3rd-in-the-bass. These are the more *essential identifiers.

These are from the common practice, anywhere you go you’ll see these.

[jancivil]

For 4/2, eg., F G B D, the totally essential 7th is identified by 2 (its relationship with the root inverted); the 4 identifies the 3rd, per bass ‘F’. I would say the 5th here is not so essential.
NB: these parts of this harmony conventionally resolve, F & B to E and C. Once familiar, you get to think in functional ways, and in voice-leading/part writing ideas, by sight recognition. EG: *Cadential 6/4*.

[lobanov]

The standard depiction of inversions figures the bass like so:
Root position is 5/3 (self-explanatory); 1st inversion is 6/3, eg., F A D, 3rd and 6th from bass F; 2nd inversion is 6/4, eg., G C E, 4th and 6th from bass G. Then we can figure chord of the seventh: 1st inversion is called the 6/5 chord, abbreviated from 6/5/3, eg., F A C D; 2nd inversion is called the 4/3 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/3, eg., G B C E; 3rd inversion is called 4/2 or the 2 chord, abbreviated from 6/4/2, eg., F G B D.

I'm not understanding 6/4 or 5/3 here.what are they signifying actually?

We start from the bass (not from the root) of a chord. Bass note changes in every position/inversion, root note doesn't.
"3" means a third (major or minor, both are possible) from the bass.
"5" means a fifth.
"6" means a sixth (major or minor).
There are different ways of notation. "C" for a triad in root position, "C6" for first inversion, "C64" for second inversion. (You may replace "C" by any root).
It seems a bit confusing at first but it works.

So,5/3 means 3rd on the bass.so it's 1st inversion? But what's with C6 to be called a first inversion? I mean C triads don't have maj or min 6th.So what's the deal with that?

No. 5/3 is a chord in root position. Standard triad isn't inverted. 6/3 is 1st inversion, 6/4 is 2nd one. In more complex chords 3rd, 4th etc. inversions are possible. It depends on a number of notes in a chord.

Standard triad doesn't contain major or minor 6th. But its inversions do. We write C6/3 and C6/4 to clearly mark relative positions of voices. In C6/3 bass is E, in C6/4 bass is G. It's important in a horizontal perspective (connection of chords). 5/3, 6/3 and 6/4 have different functions in harmonic successions. We cannot replace one by other in every case.

[jancivil]

We write numbers that indicate *intervals*. The word ‘position’ means something else already, misleading

Per “I6”, the 6th is the inversion of the 3rd.
Typically called “the six chord” in classical circles, which you may not want to say regarding jazz, as you’d think it’s a 6 from root.
“C6” is not anything you write in a Common Practice Paradigm harmony course. So terminology is at odds.
C E G A. And, in classical circles that tends to be more an Am7 in first inversion than any add6.

[fmr]

We write numbers that indicate *intervals*. The word ‘position’ means something else already, misleading

Per “I6”, the 6th is the inversion of the 3rd.
Typically called “the six chord” in classical circles, which you may not want to say regarding jazz, as you’d think it’s a 6 from root.
“C6” is not anything you write in a Common Practice Paradigm harmony course. So terminology is at odds.
C E G A, in classical circles that tends to be more an Am7 in first inversion than any add6.

^^^ THIS ^^^