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Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:51 am
by FranklyFlawless
If you have a better suggestion for a cohesive status name, provide it. As for the technical details of the birdkids OffGrid, you can read discussion surrounding its MPE implementation at Poly Expression:
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 5:40 pm
by SteveElbows
203Null wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 2:54 am
Btw, is birdkids Offgrid actually MPE? I don't think it is anything other than deceptive marketing material.
Although a whole bunch of MPE controllers set the standard for our expectations of what counts as an MPE controller, technically a controller can lack certain dimensions of per-note expressivity but still be classed as MPE so long as its MIDI output actually follows the MPE spec.
So for example, Hydrasynth and Korg Keystage have modes where the poly aftertouch of the keyboard is sent as MPE (channel pressure per MIDI channel) instead of as polyAT MIDI.
So if the pressure sensitivity of Offgrids buttons actually worked that way when using an MPE preset, it would qualify in the same way those keyboards do. Since I dont own one and they are out of business, I cannot personally verify whether that is actually the case, and havent had much time to read other internet discussions about that device. For sure the other MPE dimensions which it allows to be mapped to the motion detection of the device are very much not per-note/voice things at all, and that could mislead customers, even though it could still send this data in an MPE-compatible way (without actually having the per-note advantages of MPE).
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:21 pm
by FranklyFlawless
Okay, since the Hydrasynth series shares qualities with the Korg Keystage(s), I will add them as entries later during the next monthly Zoom meeting.
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:08 am
by 203Null
SteveElbows wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 5:40 pm
203Null wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 2:54 am
Btw, is birdkids Offgrid actually MPE? I don't think it is anything other than deceptive marketing material.
Although a whole bunch of MPE controllers set the standard for our expectations of what counts as an MPE controller, technically a controller can lack certain dimensions of per-note expressivity but still be classed as MPE so long as its MIDI output actually follows the MPE spec.
So for example, Hydrasynth and Korg Keystage have modes where the poly aftertouch of the keyboard is sent as MPE (channel pressure per MIDI channel) instead of as polyAT MIDI.
So if the pressure sensitivity of Offgrids buttons actually worked that way when using an MPE preset, it would qualify in the same way those keyboards do. Since I dont own one and they are out of business, I cannot personally verify whether that is actually the case, and havent had much time to read other internet discussions about that device. For sure the other MPE dimensions which it allows to be mapped to the motion detection of the device are very much not per-note/voice things at all, and that could mislead customers, even though it could still send this data in an MPE-compatible way (without actually having the per-note advantages of MPE).
Thank you for the clarification！
I guess I will push a small update to Matrix OS then and call it MPE (/jk)
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:20 pm
by FranklyFlawless
New entries:
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Deluxe - Released
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Explorer - Released
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Keyboard - Released
Status update:
- [Surface] embodme ERAE II - Preorder to Released
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:38 pm
by zerocrossing
FranklyFlawless wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:20 pm
New entries:
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Deluxe - Released
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Explorer - Released
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Keyboard - Released
Why would these be considered MPE?
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:41 pm
by FranklyFlawless
See SteveElbow's
post above.
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:30 pm
by UncleWayback
Seems silly to me, it is just a different implementation of polyphonic aftertouch, surely? I do understand that technically it is a partial implementation of MPE, but I would think for most people MPE meaningfully includes access to that extra dimension / the y-axis. Methinks you'll have to get the asterixes out
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:44 pm
by FranklyFlawless
I also agree it is silly, but there has already been an extensive discussion about this subject earlier within the thread:
I see two mutually-exclusive approaches to this issue:
- Keep the Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth and Korg Keystage series as entries on the list, being technically accurate to the MPE specification, but contrary to end-users' expectations/perceptions of MPE.
- Remove the Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth and Korg Keystage series as entries on the list, completely dismissing any official MPE accreditations/certifications/documentations, while maintaining end-users expectations/perceptions of MPE.
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 5:18 pm
by UncleWayback
Ah I didn't see it had been discussed already - I guess MPE people are pretty used to examining the small print!
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 6:09 am
by FranklyFlawless
I am fine with either choice as they carry relevant value regardless of the decision, and since this entire thread is simply a changelog, I can revert it anytime based on ongoing feedback. If there is no discourse or pushback, then I will assume the changes are publicly accepted until further notice.
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 6:41 am
by Fannon
Maybe it makes sense to categorize into "Full MPE support" and "Partial MPE support". Or at least quickly mention that the MPE Support by a synth is not full feature set?
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 7:42 am
by FranklyFlawless
The closest status I use for that distinction is "WIP", which is when products are currently implementing MPE, but are still incomplete. Going back in history again, my previous suggestion was for a "Synthesizers Wiki" or similar using MediaWiki in order to change the list into a table:
Ignoring infrastructure costs and maintenance, the main issue then comes down to crowdsourced contributions of hardware and firmware variants. Based on my perspective, the community most likely to have the traffic and interest to provide such information is the Synthesizers subreddit:
However, due to my security practices, I am unable to participate on Reddit, so someone else is required to propose the idea to the subreddit in order to solicit feedback. In an ideal scenario, the MIDI Association would be the authority maintaining MPE-compatible hardware resources, and manufacturers would submit technical specifications of their products' MPE implementations to them using an ongoing (re)certification process instead.
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:20 pm
by Tj Shredder
Could we add brief abbreviations for which expressions are supported?
V = velocity
P = pitch
A = aftertouch
T = timbre
R = release velocity
Then a brief look delivers the details. For the Ashun instruments it would be:
(V_A__)
Whereas a LinnStrument would get (VPATR)…
I know this requires some research, but that could be aided by those who own one of those beasts…
Re: List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:31 pm
by FranklyFlawless
New entry:
- [Oblique] Shaping the Silence HexBoard - WIP
Status updates:
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Deluxe - Released to WIP
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Explorer - Released to WIP
- [Keyboard] Ashun Sound Machines Hydrasynth Keyboard - Released to WIP
- [Keyboard] Korg Keystage 49 - Released to WIP
- [Keyboard] Korg Keystage 61 - Released to WIP
- [Surface] Joué Music Instruments Joué Play Pro Option - Released to Discontinued