Is Native Instruments FM8 the best for DX7 epiano sounds?

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hakey wrote:Sounds like there's some confusion of intervals and harmonics here.
No- harmonic intervals derive from harmonics. The second harmonic partial is the pure octave, between the second and third the pure fifth, between the 3d and fourth the pure fourth. That's where the Western system remains accurate, but then leaves off (the fourth and fifth are only tempered a tiny bit). For centuries some musicians in the west have been trying to bring in the seventh partial (7:1 or, octaved down, 7:4, is a pure "seventh"). The famous violin virtuoso Tartini was one of these- he'd be thrilled to take the Tardis to our time and hear an acoustic jazz band playing blue 7ths, which are tuned around the seventh.

Oh- I should add that Tartini and other musicians of long ago weren't jumping from the 3d to the 7th partial harmonics/intervals, because the dominant tuning for centuries was quarter-comma meantone, which has pure 5:4 thirds and near-pure 6:5 minor thirds. The many tunings of long ago had pure or near-pure thirds in the near keys- even a musician as late as Mozart was still using thirds more pure than ours today (1/6 comma meantone).

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A blue seventh interval = a minor or flat seventh interval = freq ratio 16:9?

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hakey wrote:A blue seventh interval = a minor or flat seventh interval = freq ratio 16:9?
No, that's two stacked 4:3's. Blue sevenths, as sung and played by saxes and such, are (or are close too, everyone has there own "flavor" just like any other interval) 7:4, 969 cents. 16:9 is just a couple of cents off 12-tet's 1000 cents.

I've have never once played a 7:4 for someone and not had them recognize as "jazz" or "blues". Of course in jazz and blues not all sevenths are always blued, it depends on context. Some barbershop quartets *always* sing dom. seventh chords with both 7:4s and pure 5:4 thirds, which makes "that sound" that really polarizes people as far as taste.

If you want to hear a perfect balance of singing pure mixed with singing tempered, listen to some old Four Seasons recordings.

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Okay.

I'm less convinced that the possession of a 7th harmonic can lend a timbre a bluesy feel. Surely the bluesy feel comes from the harmonic relationships between the notes of a scale, not the harmonics of a single note.

Edit: I take that back. I've just built a timbre using 7:4 partials and it does sound bluesy.

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hakey wrote:Okay.

I'm less convinced that the possession of a 7th harmonic can lend a timbre a bluesy feel. Surely the bluesy feel comes from the harmonic relationships between the notes of a scale, not the harmonics of a single note.

Edit: I take that back. I've just built a timbre using 7:4 partials and it does sound bluesy.
...and I just downloaded the FM8 demo- dry, out of context, without a ballad singer in the mix, the DX-7 e-piano and Rhodes patches are far, far less bluesy than I remembered them, :lol: They also have pretty much a gap above about the fifth or sixth partial. Now the thing to do would be to analize some real Rhodes sounds.

Yeah, there's not some one-to-one correlation between the feel of spectral intervals and scalar intervals or something like that, but there's some correlation which also depends on context. Some people get carried away with it- the thirteenth partial sounds like death for example. I think that's horseshit but for example if you have a strong third partial, which is at a pure fifth plus and octave, it is completely sensible that this might contribute to the timbre sounding "open" or "bright", "fifth-like".

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actually I can't tell now if the sound I am looking for is Rhodes or the DX7 e. piano


Was the DX7 E.Piano meant to emulate a Rhodes?
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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Turns out it's actually a Rhodes piano sound I am looking for. That Mark One in Addictive Keys sounds great >



man I love Torley. Does he post here?
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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Lotuzia wrote:
hakey wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:Saying that a synthesizer that doesnt have the same possibilities and a strictly identical set of parameters can do better I'll leave to you
The OP specifically asked about replicating the well known DX7 epiano sound.

"E. Piano 1", the original DX epiano patch, uses algorithm 5 - three operators, one with self feedback, into three carriers. Replicating that algorithm is well within Zebra's capabilities (four FMO's and two oscillator modules will do it).

(Now, who said that Zebra is "very limited for FM"?)
"The" original DX Epiano patch ? Did you ever used a DX7 in your entire life ?

The Op refered to "tines".

Only in the factory libraries of the Yamaha series there are a lot of Tines, E Pianos, Rhodish patches. Do you ever ask yourself why there's a "1" in the name of the patch ?. Yes, because its not the only one. The Dx7 II includes some EP patches equivalent using 2 Dx7, even the low prices expanders TX7 included some, not counting all other incarnations of the DX series. These patches were heavily used in more records than you can imagine.

As for me I have a whole bank of Tines, Hard Tines, E Piano, Bell Tines, etc patches, and another one of my own.

" The Original E Piano patch". ...... Just ridiculous.
@ hakey: i've desperately been searching for "hard tines" patches all over the web. Would you be willing to share your sounds with me?

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On this page, you've got two excellent freewares to do FM :
Hyper FM (the most interesting, but it is a modular system. Strange sounds available)

Onyx FM (older, sounds good)

http://www.hervenoury.com/syntheNS.htm

GTG also (FM4) :
http://gtgsynths.com/plugins.htm
Electro-symphonic poems on www.hervenoury.com.

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Apologies for the necro-bump... I bought FM8 this week and have managed to import the factory DX7 sysex files and have been loving these nostalgic sounds ! HOWEVER, it seems to have a bug with the importing and seems to do something really weird when importing patches with spaces in the name: For instance it imports E Organ but names it just 'E' and then when getting to E Piano also goes to convert it to just 'E', but then sees there's already another preset called E (the aforementioned E Organ) so ignores it.

So the patch I reaaaaaallly want to get hold of I'm unable to. Does anyone have the factory rom instrument pack converted into the FM8 format WITH E-piano ?

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It's not a bug it's a feature - NI are trying to prevent anymore crimes against pop music by preventing you from using the E. Piano DX7 preset... ;)

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Turns out it's the . in the patch name (e.g. 'E.Piano 1') that causes the conversion bug. Manually modified the patch names in JSynthLib for the eight Japanese and American banks and all converted a-ok !

Phew.... to save the effort for anyone else here's the patches in sysex and fm8 file formats: http://www.ilovecubus.co.uk/pete/DX7forFM8.zip

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