So I guess I should setup my DX-11 even though it's only a 4 operators per voice version.
Looking forward to doing this one (as usual).
The MIDI on the DX-11 though was much better than on the original MK1 DX-7's. Nice aftertouch on it!
dB
One Synth Challenge #74: DEXED (Jasinski Wins!)
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- KVRAF
- 2390 posts since 7 Mar, 2014
Hehe!
So I guess I should setup my DX-11 even though it's only a 4 operators per voice version.
Looking forward to doing this one (as usual).
The MIDI on the DX-11 though was much better than on the original MK1 DX-7's. Nice aftertouch on it!
dB
So I guess I should setup my DX-11 even though it's only a 4 operators per voice version.
Looking forward to doing this one (as usual).
The MIDI on the DX-11 though was much better than on the original MK1 DX-7's. Nice aftertouch on it!
dB
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- KVRAF
- 22876 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
For those who have never programmed an FM synthesizer before, what follows is what I call a cheat sheet to FM programming. It's some bare basics that, if you follow them, should help you to produce some interesting sounds. This is in no way meant to be a complete tutorial on FM synthesis as that would take a book. But the tips below should prove to be quite helpful, I'm sure.
Tip 1 - Look For Stacks
If you turn the algorithm dial you'll notice that there are 32 of them, each with 6 operators. You'll note that they run left to right and bottom to top. You want to stay away from algorithms where the operators run mostly straight across. These will, for the most part, produce your typical FM bell like tones and aren't very interesting, unless of course that's what you're after.
First thing you want to do is INIT a patch. This will start you from ground zero.
You want to concentrate on the algorithms that are in stacks, such as #3 where you have OPs 1,2 and 3 going from bottom to top and 4,5 and 6 also going from bottom to top.
Operators 1 and 4 are your main carriers. If you turn up their levels (1 should be turned up by default) you will notice that classic FM sine wave tone. If you turned 1 and 4 down and turned up all the other levels, you'd notice there was no sound at all. The reason is because the stacked OPs (2 and 3, 5 and 6) are modulating zero level OPs. In order to hear any modulation, you need to make sure the bottom OPs are turned on.
Take Algo 3 as our example. Turn up OP 1 level all the way. Next turn up the level of OP 2 slowly while playing a note. You will notice the sound gradually starting to change.
Then turn up the level of OP 3. You'll notice the sound changing yet again. This is because OP 2 is modulating OP 1 and OP 3 is modulating everything below that.
Tip 2 - Adjusting The Tuning
Turning up levels is just a basic sound adjustment. You get more in depth by adjusting the tuning of each modulating operator.
Start just with simple detune for OPs 2 and 3. You'll notice a slight beating between the OPs. Same thing with fine tune. These adjustments won't produce anything dramatic.
The dramatic changes come from the adjustment of the course tune. Experiment with turning up the course tune of OP 2 one notch at a time to see what effect it has on OP 1. Do the same with OP 3.
Suddenly you'll find you've got some unusual timbers.
Repeat tips 1 and 2 with OPs 4,5 and 6, thus adding their sound to the first stack. By adjusting the tuning between the two stacks, you can get some pretty thick sounds.
Finally, in regard to tuning, you have ratio and fixed. Ratio is similar to taking an analog oscillator and raising the course tune by 1, 2 and so on. Fixed is just that. The tuning is constant for each note you play.
By mixing up ratio and fixed between OPs in a stack, you can get some very interesting timbers. For OPs 2 and 3, alternate between ratio and fixed for them both. You'll will notice drastic differences just between those simple changes.
Add delay or reverb (whatever FX are appropriate for your sound) and you'll have something that sounds quite good.
Tip 3 - Adjust EG Rate and Level
For leads, pads, or whatever "instrument" types you're trying to emulate, these are invaluable. They don't work quite the same as your standard ADSR and can be a little confusing.
Let's start with EG Rate
With the knobs turning all the way to the left, that's the fastest rate. All the way to the right is the slowest rate. So if you want to create a slow attack pad, you would take the first rate knob (far left) and turn it to the left. Al the way left and you'll be waiting quite a long time to hear your pad. Adjust to taste.
For a long release, you'd take the rate knob at the far right and also turn that to the left. Not too much. All the way left and that thing will be ringing until Easter.
Now, you will note that if you do this only for OPs 1 and 4, you'll hear only the pure sine wave on release. The reason is because the modulating OPs have died away immediately. So you're going to need to adjust the attack rate and release for each OP. With slight variations you can also create some interesting timbers.
If you want a piano or keys type envelope, take the level of EG 3 (sustain) and turn it all the way to the left. Take the rate of EG 3 (sustain rate) and turn it about mid way. Adjust to taste. Make sure attack is set to fast.
Tip 4 - Use Your Ears
As you make these adjustments, you'll begin to notice "familiar" tones related to brass, keys, etc. Make a note of the settings. Eventually, you'll begin to see some correlations between certain settings and they'll begin to become second nature to you.
Like I said, this isn't mean to be a complete course on FM synthesis. It took me years to learn this stuff. It was not very intuitive back in the 80s and for the life of me, I couldn't find a manual that didn't read like a physics book. So I just slogged through it on my own. IMO, that's the best way to learn.
Anyway, if anybody has any specific questions. I'll be happy to answer them if I can. I am in no way an FM synthesis expert. I know enough to make the sounds I want to make but as far as the actual science behind this, forget it. It's still scrambled eggs to me.
Have fun with it. If you go into this with an open mind, it could be the most fun you've ever had programming a synth.
Or you could just use one of the 10,000 patches that are freely available online.
Good luck with OSC #74.
Tip 1 - Look For Stacks
If you turn the algorithm dial you'll notice that there are 32 of them, each with 6 operators. You'll note that they run left to right and bottom to top. You want to stay away from algorithms where the operators run mostly straight across. These will, for the most part, produce your typical FM bell like tones and aren't very interesting, unless of course that's what you're after.
First thing you want to do is INIT a patch. This will start you from ground zero.
You want to concentrate on the algorithms that are in stacks, such as #3 where you have OPs 1,2 and 3 going from bottom to top and 4,5 and 6 also going from bottom to top.
Operators 1 and 4 are your main carriers. If you turn up their levels (1 should be turned up by default) you will notice that classic FM sine wave tone. If you turned 1 and 4 down and turned up all the other levels, you'd notice there was no sound at all. The reason is because the stacked OPs (2 and 3, 5 and 6) are modulating zero level OPs. In order to hear any modulation, you need to make sure the bottom OPs are turned on.
Take Algo 3 as our example. Turn up OP 1 level all the way. Next turn up the level of OP 2 slowly while playing a note. You will notice the sound gradually starting to change.
Then turn up the level of OP 3. You'll notice the sound changing yet again. This is because OP 2 is modulating OP 1 and OP 3 is modulating everything below that.
Tip 2 - Adjusting The Tuning
Turning up levels is just a basic sound adjustment. You get more in depth by adjusting the tuning of each modulating operator.
Start just with simple detune for OPs 2 and 3. You'll notice a slight beating between the OPs. Same thing with fine tune. These adjustments won't produce anything dramatic.
The dramatic changes come from the adjustment of the course tune. Experiment with turning up the course tune of OP 2 one notch at a time to see what effect it has on OP 1. Do the same with OP 3.
Suddenly you'll find you've got some unusual timbers.
Repeat tips 1 and 2 with OPs 4,5 and 6, thus adding their sound to the first stack. By adjusting the tuning between the two stacks, you can get some pretty thick sounds.
Finally, in regard to tuning, you have ratio and fixed. Ratio is similar to taking an analog oscillator and raising the course tune by 1, 2 and so on. Fixed is just that. The tuning is constant for each note you play.
By mixing up ratio and fixed between OPs in a stack, you can get some very interesting timbers. For OPs 2 and 3, alternate between ratio and fixed for them both. You'll will notice drastic differences just between those simple changes.
Add delay or reverb (whatever FX are appropriate for your sound) and you'll have something that sounds quite good.
Tip 3 - Adjust EG Rate and Level
For leads, pads, or whatever "instrument" types you're trying to emulate, these are invaluable. They don't work quite the same as your standard ADSR and can be a little confusing.
Let's start with EG Rate
With the knobs turning all the way to the left, that's the fastest rate. All the way to the right is the slowest rate. So if you want to create a slow attack pad, you would take the first rate knob (far left) and turn it to the left. Al the way left and you'll be waiting quite a long time to hear your pad. Adjust to taste.
For a long release, you'd take the rate knob at the far right and also turn that to the left. Not too much. All the way left and that thing will be ringing until Easter.
Now, you will note that if you do this only for OPs 1 and 4, you'll hear only the pure sine wave on release. The reason is because the modulating OPs have died away immediately. So you're going to need to adjust the attack rate and release for each OP. With slight variations you can also create some interesting timbers.
If you want a piano or keys type envelope, take the level of EG 3 (sustain) and turn it all the way to the left. Take the rate of EG 3 (sustain rate) and turn it about mid way. Adjust to taste. Make sure attack is set to fast.
Tip 4 - Use Your Ears
As you make these adjustments, you'll begin to notice "familiar" tones related to brass, keys, etc. Make a note of the settings. Eventually, you'll begin to see some correlations between certain settings and they'll begin to become second nature to you.
Like I said, this isn't mean to be a complete course on FM synthesis. It took me years to learn this stuff. It was not very intuitive back in the 80s and for the life of me, I couldn't find a manual that didn't read like a physics book. So I just slogged through it on my own. IMO, that's the best way to learn.
Anyway, if anybody has any specific questions. I'll be happy to answer them if I can. I am in no way an FM synthesis expert. I know enough to make the sounds I want to make but as far as the actual science behind this, forget it. It's still scrambled eggs to me.
Have fun with it. If you go into this with an open mind, it could be the most fun you've ever had programming a synth.
Or you could just use one of the 10,000 patches that are freely available online.
Good luck with OSC #74.
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
Brian Enos DX7 Patch Programming notes - ok I am confused
http://www.electronicsound.co.uk/wp-con ... atches.jpg
http://www.electronicsound.co.uk/wp-con ... atches.jpg
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
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- KVRist
- 44 posts since 7 Mar, 2015
Well, in order to start learning this thing, I made a bank of initialized patches. It took me a minute to figure out how to save patches to begin with...
In-case anyone finds this useful, I was going to attach it (a bank of sine waves) here. But, it seems I can't upload a file with the .syx extension (or no extension or .jpg without dimensions, etc.).
If you want this, it is easy enough to make ->
In-case anyone finds this useful, I was going to attach it (a bank of sine waves) here. But, it seems I can't upload a file with the .syx extension (or no extension or .jpg without dimensions, etc.).
If you want this, it is easy enough to make ->
- 1. Create a new bank by pressing SAVE and making a name for the new bank.
2. Go to the first patch and click on the INIT button.
3. Click STORE and typing 'Init' into the first text box, and select the slot you want the initialized patch to go in. Then save the file (click ok on the popup on a mac, not sure about windows but likely the same).
4. Click STORE again, and continue choosing new slots and saving until you have a complete bank of sine waves.
5. Program whatever it is that you can. At this point, I am able to make a sine wave, a louder sine wave, and a sawtooth.
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” - Albert Einstein
https://soundcloud.com/groksynth
https://soundcloud.com/groksynth
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
Shame we are not allowed to use any chorus plugins, this synth is singing out to be matched with a chorus.
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- KVRAF
- 6370 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
Do it manually. Bring up pitch mod, dupe the channel and then adjust the LFO delay on the second channel to taste.spidergod wrote:Shame we are not allowed to use any chorus plugins, this synth is singing out to be matched with a chorus.
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
Will test it out.Gamma-UT wrote:Do it manually. Bring up pitch mod, dupe the channel and then adjust the LFO delay on the second channel to taste.spidergod wrote:Shame we are not allowed to use any chorus plugins, this synth is singing out to be matched with a chorus.
Must admit I am struggling to make anything sound good at the moment
So many presets sound the same to my ears.
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- KVRAF
- 22876 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
A lot of presets are rather vanilla. You really have to dive hard into this thing to get anything really unusual out of it and that usual involves a lot of fixed osc tuning and some of the more complex algos.spidergod wrote:Will test it out.Gamma-UT wrote:Do it manually. Bring up pitch mod, dupe the channel and then adjust the LFO delay on the second channel to taste.spidergod wrote:Shame we are not allowed to use any chorus plugins, this synth is singing out to be matched with a chorus.
Must admit I am struggling to make anything sound good at the moment
So many presets sound the same to my ears.
Welcome to the joy of FM synthesis.
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
I think I will wait for some presets created by the entrants to this comp and then see what I can create.wagtunes wrote:A lot of presets are rather vanilla. You really have to dive hard into this thing to get anything really unusual out of it and that usual involves a lot of fixed osc tuning and some of the more complex algos.spidergod wrote:Will test it out.Gamma-UT wrote:Do it manually. Bring up pitch mod, dupe the channel and then adjust the LFO delay on the second channel to taste.spidergod wrote:Shame we are not allowed to use any chorus plugins, this synth is singing out to be matched with a chorus.
Must admit I am struggling to make anything sound good at the moment
So many presets sound the same to my ears.
Welcome to the joy of FM synthesis.
Or I might just sit this OSC out.
cheers
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
Ok this is just a demo track, non downloadable at present. It is an ambient track created using ableton, 3 instances of Dexed, Abletons Random Note Midi thing, Abletons Scale Midi, Ping Pong Delay and Reverb.
https://soundcloud.com/spidergod/osc-74-test-demo
https://soundcloud.com/spidergod/osc-74-test-demo
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- KVRAF
- 22876 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
I really liked that. Nice and dreamy.spidergod wrote:Ok this is just a demo track, non downloadable at present. It is an ambient track created using ableton, 3 instances of Dexed, Abletons Random Note Midi thing, Abletons Scale Midi, Ping Pong Delay and Reverb.
https://soundcloud.com/spidergod/osc-74-test-demo
I gotta ask. Were the actually notes of that created randomly? If so, I wish Cubase had something like that. I could crank out ambient tracks like gum balls. LOL.
Great job!
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
It is using a generative rack setup in ableton, using some of the midi instruments.wagtunes wrote:I really liked that. Nice and dreamy.spidergod wrote:Ok this is just a demo track, non downloadable at present. It is an ambient track created using ableton, 3 instances of Dexed, Abletons Random Note Midi thing, Abletons Scale Midi, Ping Pong Delay and Reverb.
https://soundcloud.com/spidergod/osc-74-test-demo
I gotta ask. Were the actually notes of that created randomly? If so, I wish Cubase had something like that. I could crank out ambient tracks like gum balls. LOL.
Great job!
As far as I can tell this is all ok in OSC comps?
Here is a link :
http://www.askaudiomag.com/articles/gen ... ive-part-1
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- KVRAF
- 22876 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
Looks interesting. I wonder if Cubase has something similar? I've never really looked but I would love to be able to create generative tracks. Would make my life a lot easier for certain projects.spidergod wrote:It is using a generative rack setup in ableton, using some of the midi instruments.wagtunes wrote:I really liked that. Nice and dreamy.spidergod wrote:Ok this is just a demo track, non downloadable at present. It is an ambient track created using ableton, 3 instances of Dexed, Abletons Random Note Midi thing, Abletons Scale Midi, Ping Pong Delay and Reverb.
https://soundcloud.com/spidergod/osc-74-test-demo
I gotta ask. Were the actually notes of that created randomly? If so, I wish Cubase had something like that. I could crank out ambient tracks like gum balls. LOL.
Great job!
As far as I can tell this is all ok in OSC comps?
Here is a link :
http://www.askaudiomag.com/articles/gen ... ive-part-1
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- KVRian
- 840 posts since 27 May, 2008
Not sure if cubase has midi modules like ableton?wagtunes wrote:Looks interesting. I wonder if Cubase has something similar? I've never really looked but I would love to be able to create generative tracks. Would make my life a lot easier for certain projects.spidergod wrote:It is using a generative rack setup in ableton, using some of the midi instruments.wagtunes wrote:I really liked that. Nice and dreamy.spidergod wrote:Ok this is just a demo track, non downloadable at present. It is an ambient track created using ableton, 3 instances of Dexed, Abletons Random Note Midi thing, Abletons Scale Midi, Ping Pong Delay and Reverb.
https://soundcloud.com/spidergod/osc-74-test-demo
I gotta ask. Were the actually notes of that created randomly? If so, I wish Cubase had something like that. I could crank out ambient tracks like gum balls. LOL.
Great job!
As far as I can tell this is all ok in OSC comps?
Here is a link :
http://www.askaudiomag.com/articles/gen ... ive-part-1
There is this which is a free midi generative sequencer (for windows only) :
https://tonecarver.wordpress.com/nova3- ... encer-vst/