Helix Marketing

[standalone]

Time to stop feeding the troll?

It's a deal, then.

[standalone]

If you ladies want, I can hold your handbags while you sort this out outside

Ok, just don't take away my lollipop.

[sonkeysankey]

Ehh. Who the frack said you had to buy them at once? Now, in the "old days" we had the choice between synths costing typically $2000 and $3000. THAT was a choice of consequence. Did it occur to you that SOME may find Helix worth the 149 bucks? Seriously, I've paid almost twenty times this price many years ago for a wavetable synth with lousy sounds and unresponsive keys. Thats what we had to chose from, and we had to make our priorities right. I didnt have much money at all, but I was fortunate to be able to round up some money at some points of my youth.

Don't tell me: you used to live in a cardboard box too, had to walk twenty miles to school, AND you thought you were lucky?
You really should look up 'logical fallacies' sometime...

I see that none of you are actually able to rationally discuss this - just look at the last ten posts or so. How embarrassing.

I made a simple, rational argument for Helix having a group buy. I used the evidence of CamelAudio having a group buy - like any scientist would, to back up my hypothesis...

Just because YOU want Helix cheap, you cant seriously expect Jonas to fall on his knees and bow down to your infinite wisdom. Christ...

Where I did I write that?

If he decide to do this at some point, fine... If he doesnt its his choice.

Where did I say it wasn't his choice? Can you quote me please?

And like someone else here said, it isnt because you are asking for a group buy that you get these reactions, its the way you choose to do it. No wait, demand is a more correct word.

Can you quote me "demanding" anything?

You STILL havent realized the fact that these two excellent synths are different in terms of synthesizing. You merely talk about megabytes and fancy "deals". I think you are way over your head on this one. End of discussion.

Oh, poor stupid little me... I must be "way over my head on this one" because you say so. Unlike you, I've actually been discussing facts and figures, whereas all you have are unfounded allegations (i.e. made up accusations about what I have or haven't said) and an insane desire to 'defend' Helix at any cost - pun intended!

I'm still waiting for one of you to answer my simple question:
Which of Helix OR Alchemy would you recommend somebody with $149 buy right now, this week?

You couldn't even face THAT simple question without trying to turn reality on its head...

Is Alchemy a better synth for MOST people than Helix is? I must imagine so, because it's been selling (presumably) a lot better than Helix has (judging by the huge number of posts in the CamelAudio forum here, compared to the Audjoo one...) and costs $100 more...

But we can't have Jonas having to put up with the terrible hassle of 'support' which apparently is given as the reason for not making a lot more money, by selling more copies of Helix at a lower price.

Excuse me while I go and resit my business exams...

[1-2-Many]

This has to be one of the strangest threads I've ever read.

just do a search on sonkeysankey if you'd like more . . .

Oh that reminds me - sonkeysankey, your mother called. Time to go home.

[abstractcats]

me and a lot of knowledged others explained in detail why a group buy isn't always the goal and helix isn't overpriced ... .
jonas isn't going to dump the price anyway, according to his earlier statement ...

Amen! helix is a FANTASTIC at $150 and to call it overpriced is just not right, IMHO as they ,. I just got Alchemy at $125 at it is fantastic as well, much more so at 1/2 off. I did a thread asking for a group buy as well but a group buy is just not Mr.Norburgs thing. I commend him for doing things the way he is happy and not "bowing" to "sales" pressure. He is certainly a talented developer.

[ckatrun411]

Is Alchemy a better synth for MOST people than Helix is? I must imagine so, because it's been selling (presumably) a lot better than Helix has (judging by the huge number of posts in the CamelAudio forum here, compared to the Audjoo one...) and costs $100 more...

dude, what is your negative viewpoint all about? *** Alchemy, is at the very least, the 5th product of a dev who's been at this for a while.

How many dev's first synths sell at all?

Computer coders, like musicians, are often artists, and craftsmen who get better with practice. Why strike anybody down like this? Open your mind, you are being purposeless.



Edit = *** Alchemy, first read Cameleon......

[djanthonyw]

This has to be one of the strangest threads I've ever read.

just do a search on sonkeysankey if you'd like more . . .

Oh that reminds me - sonkeysankey, your mother called. Time to go home.

Check out the family portrait

[senfar]

While a group buy is always a viable option the marketing framework has to be very carefully explored. It's taken Camel Audio four years to offer the group buy and they are able to offer a number of different synths, effects and soundbanks. They also have a team that can handle the significant increase in customer sales and support queries which surge during and after a successful group buy.

All of this has to be carefully evaluated by Jonas. For example, if he sells 400 (for example)Helix next month in a group buy can he handle the surge in sales/support queries? Only he knows. Also, many synths are being sold in the $100-$350 (or 100-300 euro) range at a very steady rate that provides sufficient income for the respective vendors. Purchasers are happy to buy at those prices and vendors are happy to earn the money. I'm not taking a position one way or the other as ultimately only Jonas can decide based on all the pros and cons.

[sonkeysankey]

They also have a team that can handle the significant increase in customer sales and support queries which surge during and after a successful group buy.

Obviously you have never heard of William K.

All of this has to be carefully evaluated by Jonas. For example, if he sells 400 (for example)Helix next month in a group buy can he handle the surge in sales/support queries?

How could he possibly cope! 400 sales in one month = 14 odd sales a day. Even if every one of those buyers sent him a support query, how long would each one take to deal with? Two minutes? Five? Half an hour? I think not. Even if they were half an hour each, that's seven hours a day. Don't you work seven hours a day already? I wouldn't mind earning £60 an hour.

Only he knows. Also, many synths are being sold in the $100-$350 (or 100-300 euro) range at a very steady rate that provides sufficient income for the respective vendors.

Until they are about four or five years old, then it is impossible to maintain the same sales as in the first year - due to COMPETITION. Something you seem to be completely oblivious to.

Poor Jonas will see his creation sink into the depths of obscurity and have to work even more unnecessary hours to produce a sequel, just to keep his trickle of money coming in, and all because he thought he knew the best price point for his product. Obviously he has the WRONG price point - or this forum would be full of hundreds of posts, with a thriving community. There isn't one. Or am I missing it?
Still, at least when his product is four years old and almost nobody is buying it, he can proudly state that he stuck to his principles and refused to budge.

Purchasers are happy to buy at those prices and vendors are happy to earn the money.

What a laughable way of putting it. "purchasers are happy" - HOW MANY purchasers? Do you not understand the basics of running a business?

I'm not taking a position one way or the other as ultimately only Jonas can decide based on all the pros and cons.

Yes, heaven forbid anybody else tries to help him make more money over the life of Helix. Nobody wants to talk about the short life of a VST. Look at the market. Look at the price and sales of five year old VSTs. Ten year old VSTs even. He has limited time to sell his product.

The CamelAudio group buy is at 5,800 points - that works out to a humongous amount of money.

Still, cue the excuses - CamelAudio took four years before giving the group buy (how long has Alchemy been out? Not four years - THAT is what people are most excited about with this group buy), CamelAudio have several products for sale, etc.etc.

[rlahalla]

TROLL FOOD

[sonkeysankey]

I think YOU are completely oblivious to the fact that you don't know anything about Jonas' business or his endeavors. Do you know what Jonas does for work already? No. Did it ever occur to you that he may have designed Helix for the enjoyment of creating a well designed synth of the highest quality? No. Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't care how many copies he sells? Nope. AFAIK, Jonas loves his job, which happens to be at a seriously famous company, creating some seriously cool stuff. Lay off dude, go screw with someone else.

Hilarious. I see you couldn't actually address anything FACTUAL that I wrote.

Jonas should sell the rights to Helix if he doesn't want to sell as many copies as possible. If he's an adult (which I presume is what you are alluding to by telling me about his "seriously famous company" that he works for ) then presumably he won't exactly be having a nervous breakdown just because of my harmless suggestions.

How truly pathetic. You Helix worshippers are beyond a joke!

But I forget - Helix is a "well designed synth of the highest quality" - but not as good as Alchemy, is it...

Now, go back and read my previous post, and try to actually address some of the FACTS that I wrote. Then read what you wrote - how embarrassing is that?

If Jonas can't handle more people buying his synth - why the hell is HE the one selling it?

Does an author write a book, then publish it himself, then go around the street trying to sell copies to people, while holding down a full time job?

In other words - your 'argument' makes no sense, and is pathetic.

Helix will forever remain in obscurity, within two to three years it will be selling hardly any copies - whoops - it's already in that position now. Then what will Jonas' time have been spent for? Absolutely NOTHING. Still - you would rather that happen, than admit you are wrong.

[sonkeysankey]

Did it ever occur to you that he may have designed Helix for the enjoyment of creating a well designed synth of the highest quality? No. Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't care how many copies he sells? Nope.

I almost forgot that incredible, classic piece of stupidity.

Are you seriously suggesting that Jonas "doesn't care how many copies he sells"???

Then why not just keep it free?
Apparently, according to the nuthuggers here, he DOES care that he doesn't sell TOO MANY, because that would be just awful.

He has several options:
He could have kept Helix free. Nobody would be complaining about the price then, would they!
He could have sold the rights to it, to somebody who actually knew something about price points and marketing, and either got a lump sum (and then have been rewarded instantly for all his hard work), or royalties on each copy sold, (and then have a continuous income), and not need to do anything except bug fixes. All the 'terrible' support work could be done by whoever bought the rights to it.


Apparently only the CURRENT option is the correct one! Can any of you explain why? (Apart from "because that's what Jonas wants" - that doesn't explain WHY it is the correct option.)

This is like talking to a bunch of five year olds.

[rlahalla]

If Jonas can't handle more people buying his synth - why the hell is HE the one selling it?

Who said he can't handle it? And who are you to tell him he can't sell his own creation how he wishes? You, Mr. Troll, are the pathetic one.

[djanthonyw]

This is like talking to a bunch of five year olds.

I know, it's hard to do when you're only two...

[rlahalla]

This is like talking to a bunch of five year olds.

I know, it's hard to do when you're only two...