KVR Audio

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:53 pm

Had the chance to play with AF in depth today, mainly concentrating on amps and cabs.
Some very personal observations:

THE GOOD :
-- Imho the amps (including cabs and mics) are mostly spot on, sound, playing feel and "UI realism" (meaning how they react to turning the knobs, changing mics and cabs etc).
This is a big one, not only the best Fender sims I've heard yet but certainly close enough for rock'n'roll. Great job !
-- A big step up from IK's previous Fenders
-- Between the Deluxes, the Bassman and Twin, the Vibroking and Vibroverb all classic Fender tones are covered, including the different recognizable characters.
The Supersonic crosses over to classic (non-rectal) Boogie territory, nice !
-- Can't speak for the Metalhead and modern bass amps yet.
-- The FX are ok, the '63 Tube Reverb is gorgeous.
So, IK and Fender pulled off the most difficult part great, enough for a definite recommendation ! Congrats !

THE BAD :
-- Rather high CPU load (you don't want to compromise that tone by using low Q settings, do you ?)
-- Some conceptual flaws:
- Amplitube/X-Gear vs the Jamstix approach for example (a main program and expansions that integrate seamlessly)
- Typically Fender amps are used with stomp boxes since it doesn't make sense to apply dynamics or distortion after reverb. Too bad for political reasons so few typical stomps are included.
Add a TS808, a Fulldrive, a Fat Boost, a Dynacomp and a Boss CS3 (or equivalents) and you're in business. Those are traditionally used as integral part of classic Fender tones, so they should be included. In exchange ditch the rack FX, not needed and not even close to better freeware imho.
- instead of the Metalhead and modern bass amps I'd have liked to see a ToneMaster (since it's Fender's closest contemporary Marshall equivalent) and one of the Rivera era amps, ymmv.

THE UGLY :
-- horrible gainstaging in the presets, how hard can it be to adjust presets so input level roughly equals output level ?
-- they noticed you need a compressor for many clean sounds, so they put that rack comp into most presets, after reverb !
Classic greenhorn mistake

, no pro would be caught dead with that setup.
When trying AF this is the first thing to do - switch off the rack comp and put a decent VST comp in front, Density is free and can be set to emulate stomp compressors
-- automation or the lack of ...

That's it for now, I'll wait for the next group buy or 2-for-1 and buy it, promised !
IMHO, YMMV,
susiwong

PS: All the above refers to classic rock, blues, country
PPS: Equipment used:
-- Custom built Strat with VN PUs and EC electronics
-- PRS DI into RME converter into Digiface
-- Genelec 1031 monitors

Agreed · Post by **Agreed** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:58 pm

The last three posts on my blog have some clips if people are interested. The most recent one specifically looks at the lack of overdrive and comp up front, and demonstrates using physical pedals before the DI with Amplitube Fender (because if you're anything like me, you didn't trade in your analog setup when you invested in digital - I've got more pedals than I like to mention, haha, I'm glad that they're still useful despite my tone these days often being ITB). I'll be updating it later today to include some other flavors of OD as well.

I agree that it is very unfortunate that there is no compressor up front and no reverb in the rack. I'm hoping that if users make enough noise about it they'll patch in a rack version of the reverb. They've done more than one pedal compressor in the past, I personally quite like the Ampeg SVX comp for use with guitar and everything else, but from now on I'll be using my physical compression pedal rather than a virtual one, it's just fantastic and the results wowed me.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:04 pm

Agreed, Agreed !

Tried that too with an 808, Landgraff, Dynacomp and CS3, works great like with the original amps. Since those stomps form an integral, interactive part of the tone they should be integrated imho.
Cheers,
susiwong

redshift factor · Post by **redshift factor** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:11 pm

I'd like to see some of those 11 reverb types from the Cyber-Twin SE included in the rack. It wouldn't make much sense to have a rack mounted spring reverb in post!
Obviously Fender's official amp modeling software isn't going to include anything from other companies (except for the studio standard mic models) so any suggestion involving such is going to be a non-starter. And I think IKMM is plenty happy with making you buy AT2 to get your reverb and non-Fender stompboxes...

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:20 pm

They should do Amplitube Roland with just a JC-120 and JC-77 amp but oooooodles and oooooodles of Boss/Roland pedals and rack gear

Oops, sorry for the OT.

jplanet · Post by **jplanet** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:21 pm

Is anyone able to compare the Twin with the one in Softube's Vintage Amp Room?

Agreed · Post by **Agreed** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:23 pm

jplanet wrote:Is anyone able to compare the Twin with the one in Softube's Vintage Amp Room?

Yes, I think the Amplitube Fender one is superior. Until now I thought the Softube VAR Twin was THE reference-quality Twin simulation. Not anymore, to my ears.

They still have the best Vox though

Edit: In relation to Redshift's point, yeah, there aren't going to be any non-Fender units in an official Fender modeler. I do wish they could have put in some of the Fender Starcaster pedals just for a little versatility, they're surprisingly good sounding pedals for cheap but it'd be nice to have a Distortion in there at least for people who buy AT:Fender on its own.

However as someone with the full suite of powered-by-Amplitube products, I do have to say that the addition of the Fender gear into the collection is absolutely outta sight. They're making it pretty easy to buy in if you want to, $299 on IK's site for the whole bundle, but I understand not wanting to spend another $300 if you've just spent $200 on a sim. Still, I promise if you do you'll basically have this look on your face for some time:

Listen to the RAT -> '57 Deluxe clip I posted to get a feel for what is available with the whole pack. That's not even barely scratching the surface, too.

Does anyone want me to update my blog posting with some clips of regular (physical) OD/dist into Amplitube Fender? Treble boosters are a pretty specific sub-set of dirt, goodness knows I've got plenty of pedals to work with here, so tell me if you want to hear a more widely used overdrive or distortion tone into the amp models.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:24 pm

If I were a dev I'd jump on that market niche, a virtual VST pedalboard including the most popular vintage and boutique stomps.
At a decent price this would sell like crazy.
Audiodamage perhaps ?
Cheers,
susiwong

In case someone plans this, I'd gladly volunteer for beta testing, I own or have access to most of the classics in hardware.

susiwong · Post by **susiwong** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:29 pm

jplanet wrote:Is anyone able to compare the Twin with the one in Softube's Vintage Amp Room?

Not directly, but I wasn't too happy with the Softube Twin on a friend's system, the AF Twin however is very close to my real SF Twin, same for the AF Deluxe Reverb vs my BF'd SF Dlx.
Cheers,
susiwong

Spookyrockstar · Post by **Spookyrockstar** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:51 pm

Just spent the money I was saving for Live 8 on this.

I posted something similar on the other ATF thread, but even as a non-guitarist/bassist, I feel like I can almost hear the *air*.

I have the uber version of PodFarm, and in hoping it was just 'grass is greener' syndrome I often have, I scrolled/tweaked for an hour tryin to find something that had the tone of the METALHEAD amp. I've no skills of you pros for sure, but I just couldn't get the GAIN that the metalhead had without losing the tone of the notes.

Honestly, I haven't even tried the low gain stuff. the project I'm doing now is kinda emo/Evanescence/Nine Inch type (EMO-Dustrial!?!?), so I was only checking out The bass-amp Models and the Metalhead models in comparison to the PodFarm plugs I had in the songs.

I agree with Susiwong on the freakin' CPU for sure, but have little to no basis for comparison on the rest.

Anyway, not tryin to turn this into a love-fest, but I'm diggin this plug for sure.

EDIT: Just thought, is this plug really that good or have I just realized I love the FENDER sound?!? Whatever. Money's already spent.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:52 pm

susiwong wrote: THE GOOD :
-- Imho the amps (including cabs and mics) are mostly spot on, sound, playing feel and "UI realism" (meaning how they react to turning the knobs, changing mics and cabs etc).
This is a big one, not only the best Fender sims I've heard yet but certainly close enough for rock'n'roll. Great job !
-- A big step up from IK's previous Fenders
-- Between the Deluxes, the Bassman and Twin, the Vibroking and Vibroverb all classic Fender tones are covered, including the different recognizable characters.
The Supersonic crosses over to classic (non-rectal) Boogie territory, nice !
-- Can't speak for the Metalhead and modern bass amps yet.
-- The FX are ok, the '63 Tube Reverb is gorgeous.
So, IK and Fender pulled off the most difficult part great, enough for a definite recommendation ! Congrats !

THE BAD :
-- Rather high CPU load (you don't want to compromise that tone by using low Q settings, do you ?)
-- Some conceptual flaws:
- Amplitube/X-Gear vs the Jamstix approach for example (a main program and expansions that integrate seamlessly)
- Typically Fender amps are used with stomp boxes since it doesn't make sense to apply dynamics or distortion after reverb. Too bad for political reasons so few typical stomps are included.
Add a TS808, a Fulldrive, a Fat Boost, a Dynacomp and a Boss CS3 (or equivalents) and you're in business. Those are traditionally used as integral part of classic Fender tones, so they should be included. In exchange ditch the rack FX, not needed and not even close to better freeware imho.
- instead of the Metalhead and modern bass amps I'd have liked to see a ToneMaster (since it's Fender's closest contemporary Marshall equivalent) and one of the Rivera era amps, ymmv.

THE UGLY :
-- horrible gainstaging in the presets, how hard can it be to adjust presets so input level roughly equals output level ?
-- they noticed you need a compressor for many clean sounds, so they put that rack comp into most presets, after reverb !
Classic greenhorn mistake , no pro would be caught dead with that setup.
When trying AF this is the first thing to do - switch off the rack comp and put a decent VST comp in front, Density is free and can be set to emulate stomp compressors
-- automation or the lack of ...

That's it for now, I'll wait for the next group buy or 2-for-1 and buy it, promised !
IMHO, YMMV,
susiwong

PS: All the above refers to classic rock, blues, country
PPS: Equipment used:
-- Custom built Strat with VN PUs and EC electronics
-- PRS DI into RME converter into Digiface
-- Genelec 1031 monitors

I wholeheartedly agree with all of your points, but I'll make some additions. I found it's not the amp/cabs that's sucking up your precious CPU. The biggest culprit is that reverb stomp. It's not a big deal to me as I'd never put reverb before my preamp. I'll go a step further and say I almost never use spring reverbs at all. Still, I see where they'd have to to make it "Fenderish" but why not make a version that can go in the rack? Makes no sense.

One of the things I do really appreciate is that tape delay. Crank the feedback up and prepare for a gorgeous gritty wash of beautiful mess to build up. Now, if only you could midi assign the feedback and time.

As usual, I have all the same complaints about Amplitube and XGEAR in general, but I'll say the same thing again. If you strip it down to what it is and what is great about it, it's a must have. I think if this new flavor was only the new amps and cabs I'd still buy it just for the sound.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Post by **Funkybot's Evil Twin** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:05 pm

I'd add:

Pros

- IKMM has finally given us an indpendent spring reverb (by independent I mean that a stomp can now be used without requiring you to run your audio through the pre/power amp sections).

Cons

- You cannot mix and match some AT Fender components (namely Preamp, EQ, and Power Amp) with other Amplitube components in X-Gear
- They didn't include the under-rated, Paul Rivera designed, Fender "Evil" Twin Amp