Open303 - open source 303 emulation project - collaborators wanted

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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KVRAF
3930 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:33 am

edit 2009/10/14: project name changed to 'Open303'

as announced in another thread, i'm going to start a free and open source project for a TB-303 emulation plugin. the plugin should also include the Devil Fish modifications and some useful extensions on its own. the basic synth architechture is in place and now it's about time to go about tweaking the various internal parameters of the underlying signal processing algorithms. and that's where the collaborative nature of the project comes in: i need your help, if you:

-have some knowledge about internal technical details of the TB-303 / Devil Fish
-have access to te real thing and are willing to provide audio files for analysis
-are a graphic artist and willing to contribute to the GUI (at the moment, the plugin is GUIless)
-a programmer who wants to actually implement a GUI (i'm only familiar on making GUIs with JUCE, but possibly JUCE is not the optimal framework here - dunno)

if you think, you can contribute in other ways, that's of course very welcome as well. i hope, that we can use this thread here as kind of development blog, to discuss the various implementation details, analyze the real thing, tweak the code, etc.

O.K. - nuff said - here's the very first prototype:

www.rs-met.com/temp/AciDevil.zip

the archive inlcudes all the source, a project/solution file for MSVC 2008 and a compiled .dll for instant fun.

Let's make proper acid available for all!

peace, Robin
Last edited by Music Engineer on Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

KVRAF
1718 posts since 3 Sep, 2003

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:50 am

JUCE lacks bitmap based gui widgets, though writing some shouldn't be to hard. If a bitmap gui is what you want, that is. Not every 303 clone has to look like a 303. (Perhaps it could have ponies on it? =D)

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3930 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:54 am

Rock Hardbuns wrote:JUCE lacks bitmap based gui widgets, though writing some shouldn't be to hard. If a bitmap gui is what you want, that is. Not every 303 clone has to look like a 303. (Perhaps it could have ponies on it? =D)
thing with JUCE is that i possibly want to apply a more liberal license than GPL - but we'll see

edit: although i'm generally more a proponent of vector based GUIs, i think, for an emulation project like this, an old-school bitmap based GUI could be more appropriate

KVRAF
1718 posts since 3 Sep, 2003

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:15 am

Which version of VSTGUI is the good one these days btw? I'm thinking of going there my self.

Also, are you planning to have a sequencer or arp built in?

Anyway, I'll give acidevil a try later on tonight. I just damn near fried my ears experimenting with filter feedback so I need to rest them a little.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3930 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:25 am

Rock Hardbuns wrote:Which version of VSTGUI is the good one these days btw? I'm thinking of going there my self.
no idea. i abandoned VSTGUI looong ago.
Also, are you planning to have a sequencer or arp built in?
currently not. i tend to think that sequencing is better to be done in the hosting DAW anyway. but who knows how this evolves...
Anyway, I'll give acidevil a try later on tonight. I just damn near fried my ears experimenting with filter feedback so I need to rest them a little.
hah! yeah, i know what you are talking about

KVRAF
1605 posts since 4 Dec, 2006

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:14 pm

Robin from www.rs-met.com wrote: -are a graphic artist and willing to contribute to the GUI (at the moment, the plugin is GUIless)
If the look you're going for is like the original, I might be able to help with the graphics. If you're going for a completely different look, I might still be able to help but would need pretty specific directions.
-a programmer who wants to actually implement a GUI (i'm only familiar on making GUIs with JUCE, but possibly JUCE is not the optimal framework here - dunno)
Is your goal to make the project cross-platform? If so, that will probably narrow down what libraries can be used.

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KVRAF
2538 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:38 pm

nice!
btw, i never saw a GUI-less VST before ;P~
will be keeping an eye on this thread ;]
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!

irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr

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KVRAF
2488 posts since 18 Jun, 2008 from "nunya"....

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:45 pm

currently not. i tend to think that sequencing is better to be done in the hosting DAW anyway. but who knows how this evolves...
Not sure this is a good idea. I can never get the sequencer to do 303 stuff right. :? (could be just me though :?: )

Anttos' 303 iz awesome not just cuz of the sound but the built in sequencer as well. I think a built in sequencer would be a good idea, IMO. :)
KVR >Gear Slutz! Change my mind! :clap:

KVRist
251 posts since 24 May, 2009

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:06 pm

Rock Hardbuns wrote:Which version of VSTGUI is the good one these days btw? I'm thinking of going there my self.
Dunno which one is "official", but when I last checked (early August), the one that came with the Steinberg VSTSDK 3.0 download (v3.5) appears to be newer than the one on SourceForge (v3.0.x). But it's still apparently based on VST2.4. (For that matter, I have no idea what, if any, difference going from VST 2.4 to 3.0 makes to the GUI.)

(If that didn't make sense for some reason, just ignore me. It's been one of those days.)

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3930 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:08 pm

Leslie Sanford wrote:If the look you're going for is like the original, I might be able to help with the graphics. If you're going for a completely different look, I might still be able to help but would need pretty specific directions.
dunno yet. firstly, i'll hope to get the sound right
Is your goal to make the project cross-platform? If so, that will probably narrow down what libraries can be used.
yes, ideally, it should be availabe for all 3 platforms.

edit: does VSTGUI actually support linux?

KVRAF
1718 posts since 3 Sep, 2003

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:20 pm

One solution I have been considering, as a kind of hybrid is to use a "keyed" arp with a rhythm grid.

Splainy:

You make an arp that stores notes in the order they came in, then on the gui you have a line of buttons, like so:

OS__O_O_O__O__

with O for on, S for sustain and _ for off.

You'd use pretty buttons of course. Not unlike a trance gate in essence only, it would trigger the notes by order of input. The regular up and down sort modes could also be easily accommodated.

For a 303, you could add a line of buttons for slide and accent or what have you.

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KVRAF
2538 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:30 pm

in TB-303 the (gated) step length is either 0.5 or 1.5 (slided) or 2.5 (two slides) etc..
not sure about some rumors say about some "triplet mode" or similar thing, i really don't have clues/evidence of it

i'm talking about the normal (wide-spread) sequencing mode ;]
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!

irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr

KVRist
95 posts since 25 Jul, 2007 from Finland

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Robin from www.rs-met.com wrote: -are a graphic artist and willing to contribute to the GUI (at the moment, the plugin is GUIless)
Hi,

My friend modeled a 303 for my web-303-thing that was never finished. You can check the graphics here: http://www.rinki.net/pekka/webirth/

If you're interested, I can ask if my friend could render the GUI for you.

(shameless plug: improved version of my TB-303/TR-x engine was used made this: http://www.rinki.net/pekka/acid/ ... though it's still not sounding very good)

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KVRAF
2678 posts since 5 Feb, 2004 from Nevada City, California

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:49 pm

i've just been thinking a minute on this.. it's such a cool project!!

i have used 303 sequencers quite a bit and i think my difficulty boils down to this - i wish that i could see my pattern in its entirety somehow on the 303.. just the steps with note values somehow all at one time.. then i could make variations on the pattern more easily i think and also i would have an easier time seeing how the pattern fits with the other tracks...

does anyone else feel this is a major drawback of traditional 303-style sequencing?
Image

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KVRAF
2538 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1

Post Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:56 pm

me - not really, tho, SilverBox VSTi has exactly what you're talking about
lots of people say that most of old acid sounds a little bit randomish due to the confusing sequencer ;]
and, i agree that the TB-303 is pretty confusing to program if you have something on your mind and just wanna lay it down before you forget it.. probably some paper and a pencil would be the better choice to "save" your ideas ;P~
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!

irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr

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