Chances are that I can get a spare Behringer from one of my friends just for fun (mixed some stuff for him, he was like "I'll get back to ya").
So yeah... I'm speculating with getting the Behringer Control Fader (BCF2000) for a while now, but also an additional BCR (Rotary). How I'm wondering if I can pull off the following.
The BCF is planned to be integrated into both Cubase and Wavelab (more Cubase than Wavelab actually). It shall act as fader desk, panner, simple control (record, playback, fastforward/fastbackwards, mute, solo). Which would work PERFECTLY for me. Though I'd still like to be able to tweak EQs and compressors, but for this, the BCF is a PITA. So I'm considering getting a spare BCR just for this purpose.
What I want to do:
Run both modules (if I have them, this is all theory at the moment9 at the same time, but having "independent control" with them.
Meaning:
BCF (mostly only for):
- Faders
- Mute/Solo
- Pan
- Playback features
BCR (depending on the channel that is selected in Cubase, strictly for)
- controlling EQ
- controlling compressors
- controlling synths (while leaving the BCF untouched)
My question now:
Is that possible?
Something along those lines:
I switch the bank to (let's say) Cubase channel 4, on the BCF I move fader 1 to change volume, rotary one to change panning. Then I move my hand over to the BCR and tweak with the first row of poties (push-poties) the modes of the EQ (off, shell, bell) of the EQ, with the second the frequency, the third row might be the Q and the final row the gain. Then I open a compressor with the mouse, and the BCR responds to the compressor settings, while the BCF remains untouched.
Or:
Again the BCF reacts as channel control for volume, panning, mute/solo. Now I move my hands over to the BCR and while having the same channels mirrored (for example Channel 3-10), I change the ammount of the first 4 SEND levels for this particular channel.
If so, I'm all game. I'd get a ProControl 1 just for this purpose (that thing is THE SHIT! Seriously, used it, love it), but it's way to expensive. Also had the Steinberg Halion in my claws, but too expensive for what it offers. Mackie Control... dunno (also out of my pricerange - I mean, hey... I might get a BCF for free).
Thing is, I really want this thing (BCF), it's make my workflow that much simpler and faster. No mouseclicks anymore... no relative values for volume faders anymore either. I just "move" the faders how I feel like, which brings stuff way more alive IMO.
Any of the Behringer Control heads care to help?
Also, which is a good software editor for the Behringer Control?
And do I really need Loopback Devices? I mean, I can just plug it into USB and have my MIDI connections, no? (I should mention at this point, that I don't have any spare MIDI slots on my MIDI adapter left)
Thanks in advance.
Can I do this with a Behringer BCR and a BCF?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
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- KVRAF
- 2550 posts since 13 Mar, 2004
I'd say use the BCF in Mackie emu mode for mixing and the BCR as generic controller for your plugins. When I used Cubase, I just had one BCR and I tried it for both, Mackie emu and generic controller and it worked (even with parameter feedback).
So I see no reason that you couldn't use the BCF and BCR together, but than again, I can't verify.
So I see no reason that you couldn't use the BCF and BCR together, but than again, I can't verify.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Hm...
The thing is that I really want to use these modules "independent" on some ends, and "together" while doing postproduction.
I've seen arrays of three, however BCF. Maybe my intention is a bit too special?
The thing is that I really want to use these modules "independent" on some ends, and "together" while doing postproduction.
I've seen arrays of three, however BCF. Maybe my intention is a bit too special?
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- KVRist
- 272 posts since 28 Nov, 2007 from Dog-shit-ville- FRANCE
I am pretty sure that you can.
All you have to watch out for, is that you don't assign the same CC and midi channel to 2 different things, because if you do, you will be creating some conflicts. (pots moving that should't be, etc)
They can have same CC #s, BUT must have different midi channels to things you want to control.
I used to have BCR 2000 and I think it is a great controller, the only thing it doesn't do, (I think) is sysex.
hope it helps
All you have to watch out for, is that you don't assign the same CC and midi channel to 2 different things, because if you do, you will be creating some conflicts. (pots moving that should't be, etc)
They can have same CC #s, BUT must have different midi channels to things you want to control.
I used to have BCR 2000 and I think it is a great controller, the only thing it doesn't do, (I think) is sysex.
hope it helps
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- KVRAF
- 3864 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
You can, it's a bit of work though due to Cubase's convoluted GR.
Read here for the BCR and 3rd party plugs http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214602
The BCF does what you want in Mackie mode, almost out of the box. You can even add a Java based display emu (onscreen), but only for Mackie mode.
Cheers,
susiwong
Read here for the BCR and 3rd party plugs http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214602
The BCF does what you want in Mackie mode, almost out of the box. You can even add a Java based display emu (onscreen), but only for Mackie mode.
Cheers,
susiwong
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Yeah, I know that the "Mackie Mode" (NR or on screen or something) is basically going right out of the box.
My issue is with a probably attached second BCR, which is only used for EQing, Compressing and Synth control. I've never dived into Generic Remote features of Cubase to be honest. I thought "Plug in, play around". But I guess it's not that simple.
Looks like I need to setup EACH plugin individual, no?
Or how does this actually work? I mean... does in GR show up one of my plugins (loaded with the "plugin check" at the start of Cubase), then I can say "okay, BCR Q, freq, gain goes here and there" and I'm done? It's not like the ProControl, who recognizes everything out of the box.
I don't have any of these modules yet. I'm asking in advance - and I'm a lazy monkey actually. Still I'd like to have the convenience of having a mixing desk controller. It would totally change how I work.
OH! And I should mention that I'm still on XP for a while.
My issue is with a probably attached second BCR, which is only used for EQing, Compressing and Synth control. I've never dived into Generic Remote features of Cubase to be honest. I thought "Plug in, play around". But I guess it's not that simple.
Looks like I need to setup EACH plugin individual, no?
Or how does this actually work? I mean... does in GR show up one of my plugins (loaded with the "plugin check" at the start of Cubase), then I can say "okay, BCR Q, freq, gain goes here and there" and I'm done? It's not like the ProControl, who recognizes everything out of the box.
I don't have any of these modules yet. I'm asking in advance - and I'm a lazy monkey actually. Still I'd like to have the convenience of having a mixing desk controller. It would totally change how I work.
OH! And I should mention that I'm still on XP for a while.
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- KVRAF
- 3864 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
You have the 8 Quick Controls which are your best bet for synth control imho, on a project basis. They are connected to the top row of knobs on my BCR.
For FX there are different strategies possible, as long as you use Cubase's channel EQs, setup is relatively quick and painless.
I don't, so I figured out the strategy outlined in the link which is a complete b*tch to setup but works fine once you're done.
Ymmv,
susiwong
For FX there are different strategies possible, as long as you use Cubase's channel EQs, setup is relatively quick and painless.
I don't, so I figured out the strategy outlined in the link which is a complete b*tch to setup but works fine once you're done.
Ymmv,
susiwong
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Wait, are we talking about the independent "usage" of these modules now?
To be honest, I find it a total PITA to control a friggin EQ with faders AND knobs. Seen that for FLStudio and... nah, totally not my thing. I want rotaries for that - hence the question to use the MCF for Faderwork/Panning/Automation and the BCR for EQ/Compressor/Synths.
EDIT:
Just reread the thread again that you linked. And to be honest... I don't have any clue with Generic Remote setups. o_O
To be honest, I find it a total PITA to control a friggin EQ with faders AND knobs. Seen that for FLStudio and... nah, totally not my thing. I want rotaries for that - hence the question to use the MCF for Faderwork/Panning/Automation and the BCR for EQ/Compressor/Synths.
EDIT:
Just reread the thread again that you linked. And to be honest... I don't have any clue with Generic Remote setups. o_O
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- KVRAF
- 3864 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
Me neither before I got the BCR. Most of the stuff is self explaining once you actually start programming, the rest can be found in the manual.Compyfox wrote: Just reread the thread again that you linked. And to be honest... I don't have any clue with Generic Remote setups. o_O
OK, it's quite some work but it's worth it.
And yes, a quick look into the manual will tell you that you can have several completely separate remote devices.
In my 1st post I told you what would be the way for the BCR and what for the BCF, exactly answering your original question.
Cheers,
susiwong
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
So in short:
- Mess with the Generic Remote settings
- Put the BCF in Mackie Mode
- Put the BCR in "general" mode
and bam... units work independent?
How many Behringer Modules do you have? I read in the other thread you're controlling SSL EQs with it. BUT... you're forced to use a comp on insert slot 2 and an EQ on slot 3? No moving around of plugins or random placement?
Oh, and how is the performance? The thing I hated the most with the ProControl was the iffy behaviour. I tweaked a knob, suddenly my values jumped around like nobody's business. I turned them slowly, and nothing moved. Is the BCR more smooth?
Two downsides I know from the BCF already however:
- not touch sensitive (I have to activate recording)
- fader motors are not as quiet as other modules.
Oh and can I incement/decrement channels by 1 or am I forced to jump by banks of 8? A thing that I really liked with the ProControl (I could go up/down by 1). Then again, the ProControl also had a LCD where I'm at, which only seems to work with the Mackie Mode and Loop-Back Devices on the PC screen.
- Mess with the Generic Remote settings
- Put the BCF in Mackie Mode
- Put the BCR in "general" mode
and bam... units work independent?
How many Behringer Modules do you have? I read in the other thread you're controlling SSL EQs with it. BUT... you're forced to use a comp on insert slot 2 and an EQ on slot 3? No moving around of plugins or random placement?
Oh, and how is the performance? The thing I hated the most with the ProControl was the iffy behaviour. I tweaked a knob, suddenly my values jumped around like nobody's business. I turned them slowly, and nothing moved. Is the BCR more smooth?
Two downsides I know from the BCF already however:
- not touch sensitive (I have to activate recording)
- fader motors are not as quiet as other modules.
Oh and can I incement/decrement channels by 1 or am I forced to jump by banks of 8? A thing that I really liked with the ProControl (I could go up/down by 1). Then again, the ProControl also had a LCD where I'm at, which only seems to work with the Mackie Mode and Loop-Back Devices on the PC screen.
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- KVRAF
- 3864 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
1 - exactlyCompyfox wrote:So in short:
- Mess with the Generic Remote settings
- Put the BCF in Mackie Mode
- Put the BCR in "general" mode
and bam... units work independent?
How many Behringer Modules do you have? I read in the other thread you're controlling SSL EQs with it. BUT... you're forced to use a comp on insert slot 2 and an EQ on slot 3? No moving around of plugins or random placement?
Oh, and how is the performance? The thing I hated the most with the ProControl was the iffy behaviour. I tweaked a knob, suddenly my values jumped around like nobody's business. I turned them slowly, and nothing moved. Is the BCR more smooth?
Two downsides I know from the BCF already however:
- not touch sensitive (I have to activate recording)
- fader motors are not as quiet as other modules.
Oh and can I incement/decrement channels by 1 or am I forced to jump by banks of 8? A thing that I really liked with the ProControl (I could go up/down by 1). Then again, the ProControl also had a LCD where I'm at, which only seems to work with the Mackie Mode and Loop-Back Devices on the PC screen.
2 - one BCR
3 - that's the way the GR ticks. For Cubase settings (EQ, fader, sends etc) it's sufficient to do it globally, 3rd party fx go something like
When you're done you have a small floating window where you can select the individual plugin layers you made by mousewheel, very convenient- selected channel - insert 3 - SSL Channel - parameter
No tradeoff for me either, I've always reserved slots 2 to 3 for dynamics and EQ as it makes sense to me
4 - setup correctly performance is great and immediate, you can even get perfect full duplex (BCR updates even when you operate a control by mouse) with a bit of trying
5 - rest is correct
Cheers,
susiwong
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
regarding 2 again:
"one" BCR? So... the Fader module goes... Mackie Control Mode and the Rotary Module not? (if I had two modules)
And... still leaves the Q open with increment/decrement channel by one (browsing through the channels).
"one" BCR? So... the Fader module goes... Mackie Control Mode and the Rotary Module not? (if I had two modules)
And... still leaves the Q open with increment/decrement channel by one (browsing through the channels).
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Let's bump this one again, as I'm still curious.
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- KVRAF
- 2945 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
Compyfox wrote:Let's bump this one again, as I'm still curious.
I set up my BCF in Mackie Emulation Mode and my BCR is set up as a generic controller. I meant to get around to releasing some of my templates but didn't have the time . Nonetheless, I created 11 very detailed control templates for synths , including colour card stock overlays and a set of 5 control panels for punching in and out , step entry etc. It became an obsession to really integrate this into Cubase. After a couple of years I discovered it is truly very rare to need this level of control surface integration so The BCF is still used as the mackie control emulator but the BCF is mostly used with the quick controls. If Cubase made a matrix of 32 quick controls I'd be happier but the 8 covers most of the immediate tweaks I need with my go to synths.
Doing the firmware flashes and programming the BCR as a generic controller is a pain but with persistence can be tamed. It is in not in the instant gratification category in the least.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Is there anything planned from you in terms of webpages, or do you maybe know any with very good tutorials how to setup, program, actually use the BCF/BCR?
These two devices might really be the holy grail for me after all those years, maybe even for others. Until I can maybe fund a large digital desk, hehe.
Sad however that the BCF/BCR seem to kind of be discontinued. Nothing new was released in that section for years, and I slowly get the feeling, that this unit will die out eventually.
These two devices might really be the holy grail for me after all those years, maybe even for others. Until I can maybe fund a large digital desk, hehe.
Sad however that the BCF/BCR seem to kind of be discontinued. Nothing new was released in that section for years, and I slowly get the feeling, that this unit will die out eventually.
