Is the audio quality of Live inferior to that of Logic?

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purpleduck
KVRer
9 posts since 14 Sep, 2010

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:16 am

After about a year trying to build an interesting sound for my music, and trying out Live, Logic, Cubase and Reason for this purpose, I am trying to understand what is going on as for the quaity of the sounds produced...

Is the actual sound quality of Live's output inferior to that of Logic? It seems so to me. But why?

Is it because of the quality of the effects?

For example, if i slap a Logic compressor into any track, even with the dafult settings, the compressor seems to really make the sound much more punchy. I slap another in the master track, and I like what I hear.

Live's compressor doesn't do this even after I tweak it. Yes, it does improve the sound, but Logic's does much better!

But also before applying compression, there's something in Logic sounds that I like more compared to the sounds in Live. What is it? It's like the actual audio quality is better! Do they hide some plugin in the master track that I'm not seeing? Some sort of enhancer?

From sounds coming from Ultrabeat, to the synths, everything sounds much more full in Logic.

But I like the workflow in live best, as many before me said. Especially for working with samples.

But the synths in Logic sounds so much better. Everything coming from the ES2 or one of the smaller synths sounds better by default that something coming out of Analog or Operator in Live.

The results: all basslines I produce in Logic are much more punchy. Not fully sure about the beats, but really the compresison in Logic makes a difference.

Do you think what I'm saying has some basis of truth?

The solution to me would be to have the same or similar compression, reverb, and maybe EQ in Live.

Somewhere I found a way to use Logic synths in Live. I don't know if that means using the audio or Midi so I can automate in Live.

Is this possible at all with Logic's effects? I suppose rewire is the answer, but so far I never rewired anything. I'm not sure if I'd like it as a workflow, assigning parameters to that and that instead of having it ready to go!

I'll begin looking for substitutive compressors and effects to use in Live...

But the workflow in Ableton is beautiful. The ease to make variations to the drum beats in the arrangement by splitting clips and altering them is wonderful, for example. And per/clip modulation is beautiful too. Logic should have this too, each region should have its own settings so it's easy to make variations.

Could someone recommend compressors, reverb and EQs, similar to those in Logic, to use in Live? POSSIBLY free or almost if there is any!

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SuperFly76
KVRAF
1853 posts since 21 Sep, 2004 from Musician, Recording Engineer, Producer

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:09 am

No difference in sound quality of what comes out of either of these.
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abletondummy10
KVRist
70 posts since 5 Sep, 2010

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:14 am

SuperFly76 wrote:No difference in sound quality of what comes out of either of these.
When you drop a sample onto an audio track in Live, by default the warp engine is on, and usually the default warping algorithm is beats. If you turn off warping completely, you will get an identical sound to Logic. If you want to get the best of both worlds, (i.e. timestretch and quality sounding audio), you have to experiment with the different warping algorithms.

Complex pro usually is the best for most styles but requires more cpu.

purpleduck
KVRer
9 posts since 14 Sep, 2010

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:18 am

abletondummy10 wrote:
SuperFly76 wrote:No difference in sound quality of what comes out of either of these.
When you drop a sample onto an audio track in Live, by default the warp engine is on, and usually the default warping algorithm is beats. If you turn off warping completely, you will get an identical sound to Logic. If you want to get the best of both worlds, (i.e. timestretch and quality sounding audio), you have to experiment with the different warping algorithms.

Complex pro usually is the best for most styles but requires more cpu.
I take for granted that a sample in Logic sounds exactly the same as a sample in Live...here I'm more talking about instruments, synthetized sounds, and maybe most of all effects.

silverwings
KVRist
62 posts since 19 Jun, 2010

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:27 am

some of the fx and also the sampler in live have a HQ button.. which is not on by default.. no idea if THIS is what makes you think logic sounds better.. logic does sound better to me also. but not as good as studio one.

fun topic this!

purpleduck
KVRer
9 posts since 14 Sep, 2010

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:32 am

silverwings wrote:some of the fx and also the sampler in live have a HQ button.. which is not on by default.. no idea if THIS is what makes you think logic sounds better.. logic does sound better to me also. but not as good as studio one.

fun topic this!
You think Studio One is even better? Could it be the effects? To me it's a question of effects! What else could it be?

Of course the synths have each one its special sound...and although Operator has some nice features (and can sund very good with the right treatment and layering!) the ES2 by default is superior (to me) as pure synthetic sound punchiness.

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justin3am
KVRAF
10984 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:31 am

The instruments and effects in Live surely sound different than the stuff bundled with Logic. You may like the sound of the sounds of the Logic effects and instruments more but there is no way to objectively say one is better than the other.

I have extensive experience with both, I prefer third-party plug-ins for almost everything.

purpleduck
KVRer
9 posts since 14 Sep, 2010

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:39 am

justin3am wrote:The instruments and effects in Live surely sound different than the stuff bundled with Logic. You may like the sound of the sounds of the Logic effects and instruments more but there is no way to objectively say one is better than the other.

I have extensive experience with both, I prefer third-party plug-ins for almost everything.
I'm looking for a compressor for Live that sounds more like that in Logic!
And possibly a reverb!
Maybe EQ!

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justin3am
KVRAF
10984 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:47 am

purpleduck wrote:
justin3am wrote:The instruments and effects in Live surely sound different than the stuff bundled with Logic. You may like the sound of the sounds of the Logic effects and instruments more but there is no way to objectively say one is better than the other.

I have extensive experience with both, I prefer third-party plug-ins for almost everything.
I'm looking for a compressor for Live that sounds more like that in Logic!
And possibly a reverb!
Maybe EQ!
Well my favorite compressors are Sonalksis' SV315mk2, Cytomic's The Glue, and URS' CSP.
My favorite reverbs are Arts Acoustic Reverb, Audio Damage's EOS and U-He's Uhbik-A
My favorite EQs are DMG Audio's EQuality and Eiosis' AirEQ.

I don't think any of these necessarily sound like the FX in Logic but they would be an improvement on the stock effects of any DAW.

Kriminal
Banned
18682 posts since 2 Oct, 2001 from England

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:50 am

purpleduck wrote:Is the actual sound quality of Live's output inferior to that of Logic?
yes, but its better than FL's

felonytrance
KVRist
210 posts since 1 Mar, 2010 from nope

Post Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:36 pm

abletondummy10 and 3am are right. It seems that more than a few people have requested a better reverb, compression, etc. We have seen ableton reaching out to third party people to create better instruments than what they have in suite.
hopefully in the long run MFL will allow for better effects and instrument than what is included in live.

Live is a great program in terms of workflow, audio chopping, and session view. What I've learned is you have to add in vst's/au to fill in the gaps. The problem that arises with adding more vst's/au can be stability and crashing depending on if your doing performance or just production. If it's strictly production who cares if you get the occasional crash.

If they would only allow us to have vst/au support in rewire it would be the greatest thing ever to have a fully functional live rewired into logic, tools, cubase, etc and be able to take advantage of their great native effects and instruments.
no purchase until everything goes to usb 3.0 and all hosts are 64 bit!

rpc9943
KVRAF
6490 posts since 14 Jun, 2004 from Rochester, NY

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:55 am

Stfu and make music betches... Lol
All engines are equal now

dgkenney
KVRian
1303 posts since 9 Oct, 2003 from California

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:00 am

Kriminal wrote:
purpleduck wrote:Is the actual sound quality of Live's output inferior to that of Logic?
yes, but its better than FL's
O.K. I am going to go thorugh this one LAST time Using the Escher Staircase Diagnostic it has been substantiated both in the subjective and scientific world that:

Live sounds better than Fruity
Logic sounds better than Live
Cubase sounds better than Logic
Samplitude sounds better than Cubase
Sonar sounds better than Samplitude
Pro Tools sounds better than Sonar
Fruity sounds better than Pro Tools.


Got it?



Dan
Those that can, do. Those that can't, argue about it on k-v-r

felonytrance
KVRist
210 posts since 1 Mar, 2010 from nope

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:18 am

rpc9943 wrote:All engines are equal now
But all warping engines are not and that is the problem.

Since lots of people take loops, warp them and then toss them into session view their is a change in the quality.

If you don't warp, or use ableton's 3EQ (the 8 EQ is better, but still needs improvment), reverb, then Yes everything does sound the same. Your better off downloading free vst's off this site for compression, reverb, multiband, and others

You have to admit that when using ableton's warping that it does change the sound/pitch of loops.


Either way I'll always keep using live for performance. I'd do what I've heard so many other people do if your into production. Use live as an idea pad and then dump the tracks into your DAW of choice.
no purchase until everything goes to usb 3.0 and all hosts are 64 bit!

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