KVR Audio

sheikh al Dudeilan · Post by **sheikh al Dudeilan** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:19 pm

Trakstar wrote:What I do know it is a very musical dynamics processor with its own unique character...

Well it is, but try as I might, I can't for the life of me perceive the meaning behind the phrases quoted above. A more meaningful explanation would have made this text... well, useful. You know, the opposite of useless.

E.g., what is a three-dimensional audio? Does this have anything to do with stereo spatialization and if so, what do the statefully saturated transients [wtf is this?] add to it? And then, I thought this was a dynamics processor, not a stereo spatializer.

So, I'd really like to have a clearer explanation. Please.

Deranger604 · Post by **Deranger604** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:44 pm

I think he means 3D as in giving a flat and dull sound body, texture, and depth. A good compressor can do this when used correctly.

gavriloP · Post by **gavriloP** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:53 pm

sheikh al Dudeilan wrote:
Trakstar wrote:What I do know it is a very musical dynamics processor with its own unique character...
Well it is, but try as I might, I can't for the life of me perceive the meaning behind the phrases quoted above. A more meaningful explanation would have made this text... well, useful. You know, the opposite of useless.

E.g., what is a three-dimensional audio? Does this have anything to do with stereo spatialization and if so, what do the statefully saturated transients [wtf is this?] add to it? And then, I thought this was a dynamics processor, not a stereo spatializer.

So, I'd really like to have a clearer explanation. Please.

Perhaps you'd like to read some great articles from Bootsie's Variety of Sound blog? Start here: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/cat ... velopment/

Also look up his articles about stateful saturation, that's something he's being into for quite some time

Bottom line is naturally, if it sounds good, it is! And boy, do I like the sound of Density MkIII! Even though I appreciate ThrillseekerLA, I never seem to use it

somehow I've just been too accustomed to my other comps, but Density was once my old love and now it is rocking again!

Also NastyDLA mkII is really great improvement sonicwise, it is my main delay at the moment, it flew by GSI's delays with pure sonic nitroglycerin (my previous darlings).

David Else · Post by **David Else** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:54 pm

what is a three-dimensional audio?

how good is your monitoring setup? i only got to hear what this means when i got my speakers in a perfect triangle with me in the middle, got the room setup sorted with perfect symmetry with the speakers having the same distance from the left and right walls. get the speaker 'toe-in' (angle they point in towards you) bang on.

you need a good DAC/amp/speakers of course or you won't be hearing jack s***

when its all sorted on a good recording now you hear the singer right in front of you as if they were real, now the instruments are all in front of you from left to right and back and forward as if you were at a gig!

now its all '3d' you need to not ruin the effect with compression. software has a bad reputation of flattening soundstage and not being as hi fidelity as a great hardware compressor which can compress without spoiling the '3d' sound.

back to the question, i would say the goal (if you think it does it or not is another matter) is to NOT spoil the 3d sound of the original rather then MAKE it 3d. this would be a MAJOR accomplishment for a software compressor designed for bus and mastering as Density 3 is.

is this the best software mastering compressor yet? i will reserve my opinion until i have spent much more time with it... i am hoping the answer is yes

b4serenity · Post by **b4serenity** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:33 pm

I think all VOS's plugins are 32 bit...what does one lose by using 32 bit plugs versus 64 bit plugs? Thanks for the help!

gavriloP · Post by **gavriloP** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:07 pm

b4serenity wrote:I think all VOS's plugins are 32 bit...what does one lose by using 32 bit plugs versus 64 bit plugs? Thanks for the help!

soundwise you don't lose anything, but if you use 64bit host DAW then you need to bridge your plugins. This doesn't have anything to do with audio, just the inner workings inside the computer software. 64bit DAW can't use 32bit plugins natively, unless it has this bridging capability. I personally use 32bit Reaper on 64bit Windows 7 so I don't have any problems with using VoS stuff.

sheikh al Dudeilan · Post by **sheikh al Dudeilan** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:50 am

gavriloP wrote:Perhaps you'd like to read some great articles from Bootsie's Variety of Sound blog? Start here: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/cat ... velopment/

Also look up his articles about stateful saturation, that's something he's being into for quite some time

I love to read and that is precisely the problem: I have too much reading to do in the coming days, that's why...

a simpler and clearer explanation would have been useful, after all most people are musicians, not gear engineers or scientists. Something like this:

thermal wrote:when its all sorted on a good recording now you hear the singer right in front of you as if they were real, now the instruments are all in front of you from left to right and back and forward as if you were at a gig!

now its all '3d' you need to not ruin the effect with compression. software has a bad reputation of flattening soundstage and not being as hi fidelity as a great hardware compressor which can compress without spoiling the '3d' sound.

back to the question, i would say the goal (if you think it does it or not is another matter) is to NOT spoil the 3d sound of the original rather then MAKE it 3d. this would be a MAJOR accomplishment for a software compressor designed for bus and mastering as Density 3 is.

Thank you, thermal, this was an eye opener. I played with Density MKIII quite a lot yesterday and I also think my guess that there is some spatialization going on was also correct to some extent, even in stereo mode. Plus the coloration that's going on, whether it comes from transients or otherwise.

But these are really complex processes - and mostly interactions between processes that change depending on the settings - and guesswork would be hardly productive, so...

Had the same problem reading Sonnox manuals the other day. It's like they're written in Chinese but with English words and grammar...

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:53 am

thermal wrote:i only got to hear what this means when i got my speakers in a perfect triangle with me in the middle, got the room setup sorted with perfect symmetry with the speakers having the same distance from the left and right walls. get the speaker 'toe-in' (angle they point in towards you) bang on.

you need a good DAC/amp/speakers of course or you won't be hearing jack s***

Very exciting from a musicians point of view but how many ordinary people 'sit in the sweet spot' of a perfectly set-up music system when they're listening to audio? Almost none I'd say.

I'm not knocking it by any means. Just pointing out the obvious.

I'll give the Plug a try myself and see if it works for me or not.

gavriloP · Post by **gavriloP** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:51 am

Aloysius wrote:
Very exciting from a musicians point of view but how many ordinary people 'sit in the sweet spot' of a perfectly set-up music system when they're listening to audio? Almost none I'd say.

I'm not knocking it by any means. Just pointing out the obvious.

I'll give the Plug a try myself and see if it works for me or not.

It only takes decent hifi system (you can get 2nd hand stuff cheaply and it is still damn good) and fifteen minutes of speaker placement. And every layman will enjoy music more after that, I've personally seen this happening every time. One can also combine this with TV/DVD etc. and enjoy films much much more. The only thing that is problematic is to convince wife that no matter how it looks this is how it should be done. After she hears the music she will see that those big speakers can be quite cool

I have KEF Reference speakers and Sony ES integrated amp from 80s and Musical Fidelity DAC. They cost me something like 700 euros here in Finland (and you can get good stuff even much cheaper) and they rekindled my love of music. Not many things beat the feeling that Julie London is singing right there in front of you!

It is so much nicer to listen music in your livingroom rather than in homestudio.

If only people would understand the greatness of hifi again! It just makes good music so much better.

BASSDRIVE · Post by **BASSDRIVE** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:05 am

Seems cool, but I do not fully understand this type of compressor.

MFXxx · Post by **MFXxx** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:27 am

BASSDRIVE wrote:Seems cool, but I do not fully understand this type of compressor.

Watch and listen carefully to the video link posted below :

DJanswer wrote:Here is video demonstration of Density mkIII:
http://myvst.com/vst-effects/22-dynamic ... i-freeware

You will realise it's very subtle, almost transparent...use your ears and you will here the variances

This is an amazing BUS comp to be honest for free...

Works great in x64bit on Win7 in Cubase6.5.1 with jBridge and activeating dispatch19 tick box (if you have jBridge you will know what I mean).

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 am

sheikh al Dudeilan wrote:What does this mean:

The transient response is spot on now over the entire spectrum and it creates sonic depth and dimension: It renders audio like a three-dimensional image.

This feature is very much supported by stateful saturation...
How?

"... it also renders a three-dimensional audio image, which truly supports perceived depth and dimension.
I'd like to perceive an in-depth 3D explanation of this!

In addition to being a talented plugin designer Bootsie is also quite the marketing expert. He writes about his plugins in ways that get you interested.

I wouldn't read too much into how he describes things, he is simply trying to give you a taste for the sound. He is having fun with the idea of running a business and being able to make marketing choices etc... we get the benefit of it by being able to use his plugins for free.

b4serenity · Post by **b4serenity** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:02 pm

gavriloP wrote:
b4serenity wrote:I think all VOS's plugins are 32 bit...what does one lose by using 32 bit plugs versus 64 bit plugs? Thanks for the help!
soundwise you don't lose anything, but if you use 64bit host DAW then you need to bridge your plugins. This doesn't have anything to do with audio, just the inner workings inside the computer software. 64bit DAW can't use 32bit plugins natively, unless it has this bridging capability. I personally use 32bit Reaper on 64bit Windows 7 so I don't have any problems with using VoS stuff.

Thanks for the quick reply. I use 64 bit REAPER on W7 64 bit and have never had any problems w/ 32 bit fx so I guess I'm good. I love Bootsie's stuff!

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:09 pm

I have Win 7 64 bit and it works flawlessly. Can't say as I hear much of what's going on compared to some other compressors like Nomad Factory. I have to turn the Gain knob up more. I did d/l the mkII EQ and it does wonderful things to sounds.

bootsie · Post by **bootsie** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:46 am

@midnight wrote:
In addition to being a talented plugin designer Bootsie is also quite the marketing expert. He writes about his plugins in ways that get you interested.

may I quote that?

VOS Density MkIII ... WOW!