Kirnu - Cream Pre-Release

Official support for: kirnuarp.com
KVRAF
1816 posts since 15 Oct, 2008 from Germany

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:42 am

PepeLopez wrote:
paterpeter wrote:My system: Windows 8 x64, Reaper x64 4.33pre4, Studio One Professional 2.5, i7 2600k, 16GB RAM, Native Instruments Traktor Audio 2)

Reaper crashes frequently when I edit the step sequencers. In Studio One, the notes are played very unevenly, ie. timing is off. I'll see what I can do about this, because Kirnu has the same issues. Maybe it's a S1 thing.
64bit beta version of Reaper an Win8 is a very critical combination ;)
Is it different when using latest stable version of Reaper?
I'll test it when I'm back from work.
As workaround:
Please try to install Cream in admin mode and afterwards run (64bit) daw in admin mode. Some users reported that it works then. For some not. It's difficult to figure out why it behaves differently on similar setups :/
There are two typical reasons why you'd need to run the DAW as admin to make a plugin work:
1. Access rights. For example, the plugin wants to read from or write to places on the harddisk where a normal user doesn't have the required rights. Typical example: presets or settings are stored inside the plugin folder and the user keeps the plugins inside c:\Program Files (for Windows users).
2. User specific resources. Some plugins write important data to locations that are only accessible by the user account (usually an admin) that's installing the plugin. On Windows, typical examples are %APPDATA% or the HKCU (HKEY_CURRENT_USER) registry hive. When you try to run the plugin as a different user than the one who installed it, the plugin can't find essential resources and crashed/behaves strange/etc. Two examples: Melda Production stores essential shared resources and factory presets in %APPDATA%. IK Multimedia stores essential shared information in HKCU and factory presets in user specific folders.

To be honest, I find it strange that so many developers still don't get this right. All current operating systems are multi-user environments that clearly differentiate between normal users and elevated users. It's actually easy to make software work for all users in those environments. Still many developers don't do it right.

Cream suffers from the first issue. It stores (by default) its presets and settings in subfolders (data and presets) inside the folder where the plugin is installed. This is a bad idea and should be changed ASAP.
For example, many Windows users install their plugins under c:\Program Files. There are better places in the file system to store presets and settings. Ideally, those locations are freely configurable by the user. By default, the settings and license file should probably go to AppData\Roaming.

For the presets, a configurable directory is always the best choice IMO. If that's not possible, at least the user presets should NOT be stored inside the plugin folder (an therefore, potentially inside c:\Program Files). Better places for user presets are the user's Documents or AppData\Roaming folders (depends on how you see it). The factory presets might stay inside the current location, as long as only read access is required. As far as I can see, there's currently no dedicated program folder for Cream, but factory presets and the manual could go there. Other manufacturers store presets in c:\ProgramData (Cakewalk) or in c:\Program Files\Common Files (Native Instruments), but some users don't like it when files are scattered all over the harddisk.

Personally, I like the u-he approach: add a shortcut inside the plugin folder that points to a data folder containing all required program data and presets (factory and user presets) and make the data folder location configurable during setup.

I've become quite good at "fixing" the carelessness of those developers who don't know where to store plugin data properly. It's time consuming and annoying, but at least so far I can run any plugin without admin rights in a restricted account which is different from my admin account.

I found that Cream stores the installation path in HKLM, but I haven't tried to fiddle with that. For now, I've simply granted the user write access to the folder where Cream is installed.
If you have the possibility to show a bug in a video, please do so. Sometimes screenshots are working too. The faster a problem is reproducable, the fast it'll be fixed for sure! :)

Arto takes care about every bug!
Sure, I'll see what I can do.

KVRist
119 posts since 4 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:01 am

paterpeter wrote: There are two typical reasons why you'd need to run the DAW as admin to make a plugin work:
1. Access rights. For example, the plugin wants to read from or write to places on the harddisk where a normal user doesn't have the required rights. Typical example: presets or settings are stored inside the plugin folder and the user keeps the plugins inside c:\Program Files (for Windows users).
You're right, if your vst folder is located under C:\Program Files you may get problems. But tbh it's a default path which was introduced by Steinberg (I guess), and I don't understand that. My own vst folder is somewhere else, because of the rights problems. However, this decision is up to the user.

I - for myself - love to have all presets in vst folder. It's simply simple. As I had to reinstall Windows, I had to look into many, many, many subfolders located somewhere under \Users\ because the files are distributed over many subfolders. Most using %APPDATA%, but some are using "My Documents" or somewhere else. How annoying! But please don't discuss this here any further.

However, it's possible to implement a special value for preset location, which leads by default to %APPDATA% folder. I'd say it'll be implemented before official release.

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KVRist
197 posts since 22 Dec, 2009

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:22 am

Kirnu wrote:
eigens wrote:Its working in 32bit studio one 2.5 on a mac ML but when selecting a preset from the browser list it crashes.
Which preset are you trying to load when Cream crashes?
Is transport playing while you do this?
Does this happen every time i.e how reproducible this bug is?
Transport not playing. It happens every time and with all presets but if I select the next or previous preset by using the arrows it works.

When I select a preset from the browser by clicking the preset name a list comes up sorted by category. On clicking any of those presets a preset naming box comes up. Select ok and it crashes. Very annoying!

KVRAF
1816 posts since 15 Oct, 2008 from Germany

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:27 am

PepeLopez wrote: But please don't discuss this here any further.
Hehe, you're right. I got carried away a bit. It's just that being a s/w developer myself it strikes me that there are still issues related to access rights and user accounts in 2013. Sorry for that :)
However, it's possible to implement a special value for preset location, which leads by default to %APPDATA% folder. I'd say it'll be implemented before official release.
I have no doubt that this and many other things will get sorted out until the official release. I'm already having a LOT of fun with Cream.

BTW, I installed Reaper 4.32 x64 (official release) and can reliably crash make Cream (x64) crash Reaper when pasting steps into the step sequencer. I'll post a video of it soon.

KVRAF
1816 posts since 15 Oct, 2008 from Germany

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:42 am


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KVRist

Topic Starter

244 posts since 12 Jan, 2013

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:40 am

eigens wrote:
Kirnu wrote:
eigens wrote:Its working in 32bit studio one 2.5 on a mac ML but when selecting a preset from the browser list it crashes.
Which preset are you trying to load when Cream crashes?
Is transport playing while you do this?
Does this happen every time i.e how reproducible this bug is?
Transport not playing. It happens every time and with all presets but if I select the next or previous preset by using the arrows it works.

When I select a preset from the browser by clicking the preset name a list comes up sorted by category. On clicking any of those presets a preset naming box comes up. Select ok and it crashes. Very annoying!
I was able to reproduce this. Thanks for your help.
Will be fixed.

-Arto

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KVRian
1497 posts since 17 Jul, 2001 from Milan, Italy

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:47 am

I bought it two days ago and only now noticed th "Note that there is no AU version available yet."

is tere a way to use it in Logic 9 ???

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KVRist
51 posts since 27 Nov, 2012

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:08 am

autodafe wrote: is tere a way to use it in Logic 9 ???
If you have VEP5 you could try using it via that...... I'm going to try it out with VEP5 and Logic this weekend and see ifI can get it to work.

Other than that, I don't think any of the VST to AU wrappers will work because of how Cream needs to be 'wired' in.. but it might be worth a shot using something like VSTAU for example...

Failing all this Arto did say the AU version should be available in about a month or so...

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KVRist

Topic Starter

244 posts since 12 Jan, 2013

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:46 am

n6smith wrote:
autodafe wrote: is tere a way to use it in Logic 9 ???
Failing all this Arto did say the AU version should be available in about a month or so...
Actually I just compiled the AU version without any errors :)

The AU virtual input version will be special version which I'm going to release because there is demand for that.

If people can cope with the latency the virtual output might cause I'm ok with that but I'll mention that in the web page so there wouldn't be many disappointed customers.

Let's all write to Apple that they would support MIDI out in Logic :)

-Arto

KVRian
541 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:43 am

koalaboy wrote:I'm struggling slightly to understand the 'Order' tab as it doesn't seem to have any effect (other than the 'off' setting), and the 'copy to all' on right-click doesn't work for me. Otherwise, with the chord-mem and seq especially, I'm having great fun :D

Edit: Reaper x64 on Windows 7
just got it! great plugin but i too am having the same problem...
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

KVRist
82 posts since 15 Jan, 2013 from Bremen, Germany

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:43 pm

hi,
im using the 32bit version in fl-studio 10.9 beta.
it seems to me, that cream has some sync issues if the fl-pattern restarts at step one afer passing step 16 for example.
have someone watchted similar issues?

kirnu 1 had it too, it was ok with version 1.2.1
The good old 80s never come back
a old FLStudio nerd

KVRist
119 posts since 4 Feb, 2013

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:39 pm

ZXOxo67 wrote:hi,
im using the 32bit version in fl-studio 10.9 beta.
it seems to me, that cream has some sync issues if the fl-pattern restarts at step one afer passing step 16 for example.
have someone watchted similar issues?

kirnu 1 had it too, it was ok with version 1.2.1
I had no such issue in kirnu1 (was using until FL 9.9) and now I can't reproduce this behaviour in Cream. Could you explain more/better!? Maybe send me an example project file.

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KVRist
51 posts since 27 Nov, 2012

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:43 pm

Kirnu wrote: If people can cope with the latency the virtual output might cause I'm ok with that but I'll mention that in the web page so there wouldn't be many disappointed customers.

-Arto
So the AU version of Cream isn't going to work the same way as Kirnu did in Logic?

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KVRAF
18753 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:12 pm

nexussynth wrote:
koalaboy wrote:I'm struggling slightly to understand the 'Order' tab as it doesn't seem to have any effect (other than the 'off' setting), and the 'copy to all' on right-click doesn't work for me. Otherwise, with the chord-mem and seq especially, I'm having great fun :D

Edit: Reaper x64 on Windows 7
just got it! great plugin but i too am having the same problem...
Order does not seem to be working except for the off position...

KVRian
895 posts since 1 Mar, 2007

Post Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:47 pm

PepeLopez wrote:
stikygum wrote:I have 2 bugs to report. #1 When I select a parameter value from a dropdown menu it will always select the previous value. So if I try to select a preset, it will select the previous preset. #2 When I click on a button (track, power, etc) I can not click it again unless I first click on something else and then click it again.
Please provide DAW information!
DAW is Ohm Studio.

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