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newsonicarts
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224 posts since 26 Jun, 2010

Postby newsonicarts; Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:10 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

Our long-time users know we that update and maintain our products frequently, and Nuance 2.0 in July this year was the first paid update we ever did (since 2010).

Thus, there are many customers out there who have been using our products for years, are satisfied with them and the countless free updates they have received, and who don't mind paying 49 EUR after a few years of usage. Frankly we felt it was reasonable to ask those valued customers for an (optional) contribution, it's a small industry with a limited numbers of potential new customers (especially for an independent with low marketing outreach) and we need to fund ongoing development.

Upgrade pricing is difficult and it's never going to be perfect for every case but I think the upgrade price for Nuance is fair. There was also a 6 month grace period, as everyone who purchased since Jan 2018 got a free upgrade (the update came out in July). Again, it's not going to make everybody happy, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

We chose not to include the Nuance upgrade in the sale as it was only released 2 months ago, and it might have felt unreasonable to those Nuance 1.0 owners who adopted early. (In the same way we would never put a new product on sale just 2 months after it was released).

What is 'silly' are the sales and sale prices. But that is just the reality of this industry, and like most companies we rely on them to bring up our income to a sustainable level.

So from any sale or upgrade scenario there will always be customers who feel hard done by. But that can happen to anyone (with any kind of product), and one would hope it averages out. We try to keep things reasonable (not excessively cheap sale prices or excessively unreasonable upgrade prices, and also FWIW ensure that the sale prices never really better the bundle deals).

Frankly, being on the other side and knowing the actual reality of software development in this extremely competitive industry, whenever I hear these kinds of complaints it just comes across as petulant and entitled to me.
Last edited by newsonicarts on Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
James Walker-Hall
www.newsonicarts.com
Caine123
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5234 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:19 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

newsonicarts wrote:Regular customers know we that update and maintain our products frequently, and Nuance 2.0 in July this year was the first paid update we ever did (since 2010).

Thus, there are many customers out there who have been using our products for years, are satisfied with them and the countless free updates they have received, and who don't mind paying 49 EUR after a few years of usage. Frankly we felt it was reasonable to ask those valued customers for an (optional) contribution, it's a small industry with a limited numbers of potential new customers (especially for an independent with low marketing outreach) and we need to fund ongoing development.

Upgrade pricing is difficult and it's never going to be perfect for everycase but I think the upgrade price for Nuance is fair. There was also a 6 month grace period, as everyone who purchased since Jan 2018 got a free upgrade (the update came out in July). Again, it's not going to make everybody happy, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

We chose not to include the Nuance upgrade in the sale as it has only out for 2 months and felt it would feel unreasonable to those Nuance 1.0 owners who adopted early. (In the same way we would never put a new product on sale just 2 months after it was released).

What is 'silly' are the sales and sale prices. But sales are just the reality of this industry, and like most companies we rely on them to bring up our income to a sustainable level.

So from any sale or upgrade scenario there will always be customers who feel hard done by. But that can happen to anyone (with any kind of product), and one would hope it averages out. We try to keep things reasonable (not excessively cheap sale prices or excessively unreasonable upgrade prices, and also FWIW ensure that the sale prices never really better the bundle deals).

Frankly, being on the other side and knowing the actual reality of software development in this extremely competitive industry, whenever I hear these kinds of complaints it just comes across as petulant and entitled to me.


thx for the reply, you also have to see the side of a customer when he/she sees the comparison of the prices especially in sales. i like spectrasonics, they handle EVERYONE the same!
no sales and only fair upgrade prices! so this way there is no competition between customers.

and check out also the view that nuance 1 users/owners supported the project and thats why a nuance 2 is existing..... i think existing customers should always get some bonus if a sale gives new customers a nearly same price, maybe not price drop but a sample pack or something?

:tu:
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newsonicarts
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224 posts since 26 Jun, 2010

Postby newsonicarts; Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:40 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

Caine123 wrote:and check out also the view that nuance 1 users/owners supported the project and thats why a nuance 2 is existing..... i think existing customers should always get some bonus if a sale gives new customers a nearly same price, maybe not price drop but a sample pack or something?


Existing customers have already had additional benefit -> they've been using the product already. Or to put it another way, the extreme form of waiting for the best deal would mean never actually getting usage (as one can never be sure if there will be an even 'crazier' sale, or if a major update is just around the corner).

The only customers who are hard done by are those who purchase just before a sale, or just before an update grace period. But sadly, there is just no solution to that (except for free updates and no sales, but that is hard to pull off in todays market).
James Walker-Hall
www.newsonicarts.com
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pekbro
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1914 posts since 29 Sep, 2010, from Maui

Postby pekbro; Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:41 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

I wish we could get some more color options, some of the best UI work around
imo, although personally, I'm really pretty tired of orange. :)

*It might be cool if you could change the base hi-lite color to whatever you want
and save that info to the presets. With some kind of indication as to that, you could
organize presets visually if you wanted. :shrug:
kiezum
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452 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Postby kiezum; Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

newsonicarts wrote:...Upgrade pricing is difficult and it's never going to be perfect for every case but I think the upgrade price for Nuance is fair. There was also a 6 month grace period, as everyone who purchased since Jan 2018 got a free upgrade (the update came out in July). Again, it's not going to make everybody happy, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

....

What is 'silly' are the sales and sale prices. But that is just the reality of this industry, and like most companies we rely on them to bring up our income to a sustainable level.


I didn't know about the 6 month grace period. Is that standard policy? That's very reasonable. I was afraid when I would buy Granite, that version 2 would be around the corner for another 50 euro.

And yes, upgrade pricing is difficult (and sometimes frustrating that every company uses another strategy and pricing). To be honest, the upgrade price of 50 euro made me think twice about buying Nuance 2.

But as I read your posts on this forum, I saw that you care about your customers. And that is the most important thing! The customer service and hotswapping samples and presets made me decide to buy Nuance (but I really would like automapping and autospreading :wink: ).

And yes, the sales are getting a bit silly. But the 25-50% sales of companies like Steinberg, Ableton, Native Instruments Fabfilter and Presonus make it possible for me to upgrade their products once in a while.
Neon Breath
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2856 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Postby Neon Breath; Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:15 pm Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

newsonicarts wrote: Thus, there are many customers out there who have been using our products for years, are satisfied with them and the countless free updates they have received, and who don't mind paying 49 EUR after a few years of usage. Frankly we felt it was reasonable to ask those valued customers for an (optional) contribution, it's a small industry with a limited numbers of potential new customers (especially for an independent with low marketing outreach) and we need to fund ongoing development.


I am one of those. I've been using Granite since almost day one and got all the numerous updates that have been baked and put out always for free. Always. Not a bad investment for 100 bucks over nearly a decade of usage. If there was (and I really hope there is!! Come on James, please enlighten us!) V2 of Granite coming out, I would be happy to pay $50 for the update and continue to support New Sonic Arts, I wouldn't hesitate one second. Some people don't hesitate paying a $100 dinner with a good bottle of wine for only night only, all going down the toilet the day after but whine when it's time to pay $50 after 8 years for an update of a really cool plugin... :dog:
Last edited by Neon Breath on Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fisherKing
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1719 posts since 6 Aug, 2009

Postby fisherKing; Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:17 pm Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

i own & use nuance and vice, great plugins (i also own granite, but never use it). the company is so good with updates, fixes, tweaks... and customer support. a paid upgrade path to a new version (ie nuance) is well-worth it...
always one plugin short of perfection...
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pdxindy
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13700 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:08 pm Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

Caine123 wrote:
and check out also the view that nuance 1 users/owners supported the project and thats why a nuance 2 is existing..... i think existing customers should always get some bonus if a sale gives new customers a nearly same price, maybe not price drop but a sample pack or something?

:tu:


Users always come up with the reasons why they should get something cheaper. It's just their own selfish interest talking.

The value for cost of New Sonic Arts stuff is very high. Their upgrade pricing is more than fair.
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VariKusBrainZ
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7982 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Postby VariKusBrainZ; Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:34 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

I wont moan

I got Granite for £10 in a group buy in 2010 and just recently upgraded to everything for £126

:tu:
Caine123
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5234 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:46 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

pdxindy wrote:
Caine123 wrote:
and check out also the view that nuance 1 users/owners supported the project and thats why a nuance 2 is existing..... i think existing customers should always get some bonus if a sale gives new customers a nearly same price, maybe not price drop but a sample pack or something?

:tu:


Users always come up with the reasons why they should get something cheaper. It's just their own selfish interest talking.

The value for cost of New Sonic Arts stuff is very high. Their upgrade pricing is more than fair.


I respect ur opinion and also the devs opinion the same i expect from you. My expression wasnt unfair or insulting just something maybe to think about!

Thats why i named spectrasonics. No difference between customers as each pays the same normally and existing ones get nice upgrade offers. Thats it. And i love newsonic arts products thats why i bought them all.
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Caine123
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5234 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Postby Caine123; Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:46 am Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

pdxindy wrote:
Caine123 wrote:
and check out also the view that nuance 1 users/owners supported the project and thats why a nuance 2 is existing..... i think existing customers should always get some bonus if a sale gives new customers a nearly same price, maybe not price drop but a sample pack or something?

:tu:


Users always come up with the reasons why they should get something cheaper. It's just their own selfish interest talking.

The value for cost of New Sonic Arts stuff is very high. Their upgrade pricing is more than fair.


I respect ur opinion and also the devs opinion the same i expect from you. My expression wasnt unfair or insulting just something maybe to think about!

Thats why i named spectrasonics. No difference between customers as each pays the same normally and existing ones get nice upgrade offers. Thats it. And i love newsonic arts products thats why i bought them all.
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 2nd Gen 18i20 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit
newsonicarts
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224 posts since 26 Jun, 2010

Postby newsonicarts; Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:20 pm Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

kiezum wrote:I didn't know about the 6 month grace period. Is that standard policy? That's very reasonable.


Yes, it is standard policy. Furthermore, our major updates are handled differently to most companies. The updates are actually free and available to all users, the upgrade fee is optional and gets you access to major new feature blocks. So even without upgrading your licence, you still get the core enhancements, optimizations, latest bug fixes. In other words, our policy is that no user ends up with a dead, non-maintained product.

https://www.newsonicarts.com/html/knowl ... ade-policy

In the case of Nuance 2.0 things like the drag-and-drop modulation system, new FX, the samples database are all V2 licence restricted features, but there were lots of minor features (for example, refreshed UI, enhanced copy/paste and drag and drop of pads and layers, engine optimisations, bug fixes) that all users get as standard.
James Walker-Hall
www.newsonicarts.com
newsonicarts
KVRist
 
224 posts since 26 Jun, 2010

Postby newsonicarts; Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:24 pm Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

Neon Breath wrote:If there was (and I really hope there is!! Come on James, please enlighten us!) V2 of Granite coming out


Can't confirm at this stage but the intention is for a minor-ish update of Granite still this year and a major one next year. But I really can't confirm at this stage, things may change. But in any case I think there will definitely be a major update at some point.
James Walker-Hall
www.newsonicarts.com
Neon Breath
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2856 posts since 15 Sep, 2010

Postby Neon Breath; Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:40 pm Re: Nuance, The Compact Sampler from New Sonic Arts

newsonicarts wrote:
Neon Breath wrote:If there was (and I really hope there is!! Come on James, please enlighten us!) V2 of Granite coming out


Can't confirm at this stage but the intention is for a minor-ish update of Granite still this year and a major one next year. But I really can't confirm at this stage, things may change. But in any case I think there will definitely be a major update at some point.


:tu: thanks a lot for the update.

No worries no stress about the date or the deadline, it'll be there when it's there. As long as Granite still continues to receive love (it deserves it, such a unique an inspiring granular synth that needs to keep living for a long time), it's fantastic!
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