Waveform Problem Plugins

[dRowAudio]

Kontakt is a bit different from what I can tell as it isn't really configurable. I don't have it installed on Windows but on the Mac, the VST presents as three plugins with 62, 16 & 8 outputs so it's probably best just to choose the most appropriate one.

The AU version is stereo by default but it's possible to use the channel configuration options to change the layout to 5.1. Then, you can route the channels to various different tracks by putting it inside a rack (see attached image).

Is it not behaving like either of these on Windows?

Screen Shot 2017-07-31 at 23.37.18.png

[zzz00m]

The wrapper works fine, just don't understand the function of, or use case for the "Right-click > Configure plugin channels > Input|Output busses >" feature.

I got the wrapper working with both Kontakt 5 and Structure 2. I used the Kontakt (8 out version), and all 8 outputs show up (the main stereo out, plus 3 stereo aux buses).

Structure shows all 32 outputs (16 stereo).

[dRowAudio]

If you're using plugins that open multiple output channels by default then this new option won't have any use for you. It's specifically for plugins which support multiple output channels but only open mono/stereo by default.

This has two main uses:
Opening multiple output channels:
• In my Kontakt AU example above, when I add the AU version of Kontakt to a rack it only opens with 2 output channels
• If I want to configure it as in the image above I have to right click the plugin and select 5.1
• Now the plugin changes its configuration and has 6 output channels, all named correctly for a 5.1 layout
• Now I can duplicate the rack on the tracks and patch it up appropriately
• Inside the Kontakt UI I can now assign instruments to channels as desired

Opening additional input channels for sidechaining:
• If I have a plugin such as compressor, sometimes these are capable of having a separate sidechain input
• However, some plugins only open a stereo input bus by default
• This means when I open the plugin UI, the "Side chain input" menu in Waveform won't be available
• However, if I click on the plugin icon, choose the input bus and open more input channels, the sidechain menu becomes available in the plugin window
• Now I can set another track as the side chain source and enable the plugin to use this


If your plugins are opening with multiple inputs/outputs by default, what problem are you expecting the new bus configuration options to solve? This is only useful if you need access to more channels than are opened by default.
Note that not all plugins are able to change their input/output bus configurations, it's only plugins that have this capability for which this is useful.

[tengotiempo]

I have some Problems with Wave plugins and the new Syntronik..but i think its a bug regarding the GUI handled by Waveform... For example if i load the Waves Rcompressor ..doesnt matter AU or Vst it works quite normal ..but after a while if i open it again and click the load preset button in the waves GUI, waveform crashes immediately... also with Syntronik ..if i click to load some effects into a chain...it often crashes immediately..not always, but for sure it will happen after a while..i guess it always happens if plugins need to reference a file outside waveform. its really annoying, so i stopped using waveform for now..

that all happens on 8.2.0 OS 10.9.5 the newest Wave Versions i could install on 10.9.5..but also the newest Version of Syntronik..so i don't believe its a specific problem of the waves plugin as it happens with syntronik also.. i really think its the way some plugins refer to their specific files.

an edit regarding the waves plugin : if i select the presets via Waveform (down in the inspector ) instead of "load" in Waves GUI, i can prevent crashing waveform..but with Syntronik there is no such Possibility.

[dRowAudio]

I have some Problems with Wave plugins and the new Syntronik..but i think its a bug regarding the GUI handled by Waveform... For example if i load the Waves Rcompressor ..doesnt matter AU or Vst it works quite normal ..but after a while if i open it again and click the load preset button in the waves GUI, waveform crashes immediately... also with Syntronik ..if i click to load some effects into a chain...it often crashes immediately..not always, but for sure it will happen after a while..i guess it always happens if plugins need to reference a file outside waveform. its really annoying, so i stopped using waveform for now..

that all happens on 8.2.0 OS 10.9.5 the newest Wave Versions i could install on 10.9.5..but also the newest Version of Syntronik..so i don't believe its a specific problem of the waves plugin as it happens with syntronik also.. i really think its the way some plugins refer to their specific files.

Can you send a log file to support@tracktion.com so we can see specifically where it is crashing? It might be something we can fix. You can find the log file by opening Waveform, finding the "Help" button in the bottom left and then "Show the Waveform log file" option.
Many thanks, Dave

[tengotiempo]

Thanks for the quick answer Dave ... i have send the email right now

[zzz00m]

If you're using plugins that open multiple output channels by default then this new option won't have any use for you. It's specifically for plugins which support multiple output channels but only open mono/stereo by default.

This has two main uses:
Opening multiple output channels:
• In my Kontakt AU example above, when I add the AU version of Kontakt to a rack it only opens with 2 output channels
• If I want to configure it as in the image above I have to right click the plugin and select 5.1
• Now the plugin changes its configuration and has 6 output channels, all named correctly for a 5.1 layout
• Now I can duplicate the rack on the tracks and patch it up appropriately
• Inside the Kontakt UI I can now assign instruments to channels as desired

Opening additional input channels for sidechaining:
• If I have a plugin such as compressor, sometimes these are capable of having a separate sidechain input
• However, some plugins only open a stereo input bus by default
• This means when I open the plugin UI, the "Side chain input" menu in Waveform won't be available
• However, if I click on the plugin icon, choose the input bus and open more input channels, the sidechain menu becomes available in the plugin window
• Now I can set another track as the side chain source and enable the plugin to use this


If your plugins are opening with multiple inputs/outputs by default, what problem are you expecting the new bus configuration options to solve? This is only useful if you need access to more channels than are opened by default.
Note that not all plugins are able to change their input/output bus configurations, it's only plugins that have this capability for which this is useful.

Hey Dave, thanks for the explanation! It seems that the Kontakt 5 VST on Windows come in 3 flavors, and they all have pre-configured outputs of either 8, 16, or 64.

It seems that these output channels become hardwired in the DAW. I have also tried this in another DAW that exposes all of the pre-configured multi-out channels and get the same result.

I am not aware of owning any plugins that have the ability to change output configurations on the fly, after insertion. So I had been wondering if this feature could be used to speed up workflow in assigning a multi-out arrangement.

But you answered my question about this undocumented feature. Thanks!

[dRowAudio]

Yes, most plugins come in variations with pre-configured busses which is why we've never really had to add this feature. Recently though, the framework we used improved the support for plugin busses which had the unfortunate and un-avoidable side effect of changing the default layout for some plugins. This means that for some of those plugins (there aren't very many) the additional channels became un-available. It's for these use-cases we added this feature.

We will be looking at the multi-out assignment workflows later on in the year hopefully.

[dRowAudio]

Yes, most plugins come in variations with pre-configured busses which is why we've never really had to add this feature. Recently though, the framework we used improved the support for plugin busses which had the unfortunate and un-avoidable side effect of changing the default layout for some plugins. This means that for some of those plugins (there aren't very many) the additional channels became un-available. It's for these use-cases we added this feature.

We will be looking at the multi-out assignment workflows later on in the year hopefully.

[zzz00m]

Yes, most plugins come in variations with pre-configured busses which is why we've never really had to add this feature. Recently though, the framework we used improved the support for plugin busses which had the unfortunate and un-avoidable side effect of changing the default layout for some plugins. This means that for some of those plugins (there aren't very many) the additional channels became un-available. It's for these use-cases we added this feature.

We will be looking at the multi-out assignment workflows later on in the year hopefully.

Thanks! Once you grasp the concept of wrapping the plugin in a rack, the process is fairly intuitive to setup the multi-out configuration.

In another DAW that I use, you don't insert an instrument plugin to an existing track, but when you insert one into the project, you are creating one or more new tracks for this plugin instance. At that time you can choose to add either the first synth audio output, or all audio outputs, which appear as new consecutive tracks in the track view. That way everything gets mapped out in one step. It's a slightly different approach, but handy.

[dRowAudio]

Yep, that kind of thing would be cool. Or perhaps options within the rack to automatically add to subsequent tracks or create new ones...
I'm sure we can do something along these lines.

[zzz00m]

Yep, that kind of thing would be cool. Or perhaps options within the rack to automatically add to subsequent tracks or create new ones...
I'm sure we can do something along these lines.

Cool!

[scalawag]

Hi.
Code Red Free and SGA1566 from shatteredglassaudio don't work on 8.2.0.
They stay red after scanning for new plugins.

[geqfreq]

dRowAudio

Thanks for all the Kontakt info - i had posted in another topic...
- yes I was having a hard time setting up multi instrument.
Found hit and miss setting up and with all the extra center channels.
Have the vids for multi output - but have seen nothing for multi instruments.
Wanting to get full use of Kontakt and Falcon -G

[tonedef71]

Fathom VSTi from Seaweed Audio (v1.0.13) is now crashing the latest Waveform beta (8.2.5) running on Windows 10 x64.