Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
ghettosynth
KVRAF
12083 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:15 pm

idfpower wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Yeah, they sure do. Oh, and there are background vocals on the chorus. You don't hear the harmony?
I was thinking of different voices/timbres. You know, make it sound BIG. Right now my main beef would be the vocals...still too artifical. There are two things that make or break this kind of music: drums (the engine!) and vocals. These either add a lot of dynamics, or completely kill the song. Like I said before: it's very difficult to fake stuff in metal - artificial bits tend to stand out (in a bad way) and you can only go that far.

When we're talking about country or even certain 80s styles I can see the argument to wags for not being so self conscious and just using his own voice. But, now we're talking about metal, and no disrespect, but, it takes a certain level of power and confidence to make metal sound authentic.

Given that wags didn't want to try this for country music, I feel like it's kind of nonsensical to suggest that he record his own voice for metal. So, while I agree that the vocals need to be thicker, I think that the best advice would be with respect to how to accomplish that with the synthesized vocals.
As for the guy mentioning BABYMETAL - real vocals with heavy riffs. BIG difference. Actually, metal is a VERY EXPERIMENTAL music genre. Anyway, to me, wagtune's tracks sounds more like Wagakki (killer band btw) than BM (https://youtu.be/eNoDyfvABHc), but hey :)
I agree that it doesn't sound like Babymetal, it has much more of a weird progressive chiptunes metal kind of thing going. It's not my cup of tea, but, I don't know why people like chiptunes either.

I think though, that the authenticity that wags should explore is his own. How do you make those synth vocals sound like the start of "his" show. I think that this is important from the perspective of self-expression. Do what you do as best as you can. That doesn't necessarily mean that you should change what you do to what other people do. This is where the argument with respect to conforming to genre actually matters. The only reason that one should conform to the norms of a particular genre is if they want to sound authentic with respect to that genre. If one has already made it clear that they won't conform with respect to a specific and vital element, then it makes more sense to just let that expectation go and, instead, simply produce the best variant of a genre that they can given those limitations.

And I'm just going to say it, IMNSHO, both metal and progressive rock have plenty of room within their umbrella for off-beat, even somewhat cheesy, interpretations. Sorry, it's nothing like country or blues where the rawness almost defines the genre. Metal is a cheesy, bombastic, and over the top genre to begin with. Prog rock is associated with capes, metal with spandex, and now we have Babymetal where it's associated with little girls in cute little dresses. I think that we can dispense with much of the air of seriousness, no?

So wags has basically four choices:

1) Sing metal with his own voice. No disrespect intended, but, I think that this would be even less authentic and not half as interesting.

2) Hire someone to sing. I don't think that this is going to happen, we've had this conversation before.

3) Try to make the synthesized voice sound authentic with respect to the norms of metal. While this "might" be possible, I don't believe that it is. I think that efforts here will ultimately be disappointing.

4) Embrace the weirdness of the synthesized voice and push it and the remainder of the production in a direction that allows it to be the star.

I think that only option four is even passably realistic. My joking comment was half serious, this reminds me of so much of asian weirdness, especially what I perceive as Korean vs Japanese, keeping in mind that I'm no expert on either culture.

IMHO, a weird cheesy metal prog-metal genre that is all synthesized, and, in fact, contains absolutely no pure acoustic elements might be one of the best uses yet for the synthesized voices that wags likes so much. In this imagined genre, a key element is that there is no ACTUAL singing or guitar playing. I'm serious, given what people like on the fringes, I think that this kind of music will find an audience if done well.

User avatar
idfpower
KVRian
1481 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums???

Post Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:39 pm

ghettosynth wrote:I don't know why people like chiptunes either.
Because it kicks *** ?!? ;)

https://youtu.be/6mPQVvd28WI
TELURICA - "Made In ___ [INSERT LOCATION]" - EP (2008).
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
18194 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums???

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:03 am

ghettosynth wrote:
idfpower wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Yeah, they sure do. Oh, and there are background vocals on the chorus. You don't hear the harmony?
I was thinking of different voices/timbres. You know, make it sound BIG. Right now my main beef would be the vocals...still too artifical. There are two things that make or break this kind of music: drums (the engine!) and vocals. These either add a lot of dynamics, or completely kill the song. Like I said before: it's very difficult to fake stuff in metal - artificial bits tend to stand out (in a bad way) and you can only go that far.

When we're talking about country or even certain 80s styles I can see the argument to wags for not being so self conscious and just using his own voice. But, now we're talking about metal, and no disrespect, but, it takes a certain level of power and confidence to make metal sound authentic.

Given that wags didn't want to try this for country music, I feel like it's kind of nonsensical to suggest that he record his own voice for metal. So, while I agree that the vocals need to be thicker, I think that the best advice would be with respect to how to accomplish that with the synthesized vocals.
As for the guy mentioning BABYMETAL - real vocals with heavy riffs. BIG difference. Actually, metal is a VERY EXPERIMENTAL music genre. Anyway, to me, wagtune's tracks sounds more like Wagakki (killer band btw) than BM (https://youtu.be/eNoDyfvABHc), but hey :)
I agree that it doesn't sound like Babymetal, it has much more of a weird progressive chiptunes metal kind of thing going. It's not my cup of tea, but, I don't know why people like chiptunes either.

I think though, that the authenticity that wags should explore is his own. How do you make those synth vocals sound like the start of "his" show. I think that this is important from the perspective of self-expression. Do what you do as best as you can. That doesn't necessarily mean that you should change what you do to what other people do. This is where the argument with respect to conforming to genre actually matters. The only reason that one should conform to the norms of a particular genre is if they want to sound authentic with respect to that genre. If one has already made it clear that they won't conform with respect to a specific and vital element, then it makes more sense to just let that expectation go and, instead, simply produce the best variant of a genre that they can given those limitations.

And I'm just going to say it, IMNSHO, both metal and progressive rock have plenty of room within their umbrella for off-beat, even somewhat cheesy, interpretations. Sorry, it's nothing like country or blues where the rawness almost defines the genre. Metal is a cheesy, bombastic, and over the top genre to begin with. Prog rock is associated with capes, metal with spandex, and now we have Babymetal where it's associated with little girls in cute little dresses. I think that we can dispense with much of the air of seriousness, no?

So wags has basically four choices:

1) Sing metal with his own voice. No disrespect intended, but, I think that this would be even less authentic and not half as interesting.

2) Hire someone to sing. I don't think that this is going to happen, we've had this conversation before.

3) Try to make the synthesized voice sound authentic with respect to the norms of metal. While this "might" be possible, I don't believe that it is. I think that efforts here will ultimately be disappointing.

4) Embrace the weirdness of the synthesized voice and push it and the remainder of the production in a direction that allows it to be the star.

I think that only option four is even passably realistic. My joking comment was half serious, this reminds me of so much of asian weirdness, especially what I perceive as Korean vs Japanese, keeping in mind that I'm no expert on either culture.

IMHO, a weird cheesy metal prog-metal genre that is all synthesized, and, in fact, contains absolutely no pure acoustic elements might be one of the best uses yet for the synthesized voices that wags likes so much. In this imagined genre, a key element is that there is no ACTUAL singing or guitar playing. I'm serious, given what people like on the fringes, I think that this kind of music will find an audience if done well.
Thanks for the detailed and well thought out response.

Of course I'd expect no less from you.

For the record, I wish I could sing any genre as well as any human being on the planet. Unfortunately, I can't. So I have three choices.

1) Do only instrumentals (boring)

2) Hire singers (expensive and frustrating)

3) Use what means I have in order to create vocals.

I choose 3, regardless of how other people feel about it.

User avatar
ThePresent
KVRist
455 posts since 17 Dec, 2013 from The Netherlands

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:16 am

If Daft Punk could do "Robot Rock", wagtunes surely can do all-synthetic "metal" (which is a contradiction I guess but that's beside the point).
The audience will decide whether it becomes a genre or not ;)

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
18194 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:34 am

ThePresent wrote:If Daft Punk could do "Robot Rock", wagtunes surely can do all-synthetic "metal" (which is a contradiction I guess but that's beside the point).
The audience will decide whether it becomes a genre or not ;)
If I could get somebody to do animations for the Vocaloid singers I'd bet it takes off like a rocket. If I had the talent to do stuff like that myself, I would.

User avatar
idfpower
KVRian
1481 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:37 am

wagtunes wrote: If I could get somebody to do animations for the Vocaloid singers I'd bet it takes off like a rocket. If I had the talent to do stuff like that myself, I would.
Well, how about this > https://osu.ppy.sh/ < instead? Highly addictive, and (IMO) well suited for your type of music ;)
TELURICA - "Made In ___ [INSERT LOCATION]" - EP (2008).
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
18194 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:51 am

idfpower wrote:
wagtunes wrote: If I could get somebody to do animations for the Vocaloid singers I'd bet it takes off like a rocket. If I had the talent to do stuff like that myself, I would.
Well, how about this > https://osu.ppy.sh/ < instead? Highly addictive, and (IMO) well suited for your type of music ;)
Interesting. I'll check it out.

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
19406 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:21 pm

Cookie Monster doesn't seem that hard to do, or needing rilly big power in the voice, tho. :)
I may be locatable @:
FB - Public

EnGee
KVRAF
5855 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:46 pm


musicjunk
KVRist
103 posts since 17 Jan, 2017

Re: Best Heavy Metal Drums??? (EZDrummer 2 Purchased)

Post Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:58 am

the answer is simple

best metal drums are


toontrack death & darkness sdx :))

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