Toontrack SD2 to SD3 strange upgrade policy

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
emanuelsj
KVRist
280 posts since 22 Dec, 2005

Post Thu May 03, 2018 8:46 am

Just got an email from Toontrack saying "Attention all owners of Superior Drummer 2: The Superior Drummer 3 Upgrade will be discontinued on December 31, 2018. Don’t miss taking advantage of the heavily discounted upgrade pricing. Upgrade today!"

And it continues: "WHY NOW? WHY UPGRADE?
The Superior Drummer 3 Upgrade will be discontinued since Superior Drummer 2 no longer is supported, updated or available for purchase (which in effect means it will become obsolete and cease to work on numerous platforms at some point in time)."

I don't know you, but I don't like this aggressive marketing pressure. As a SD2 user maybe I don't want to spend on a product which is not mature yet, maybe I'm fine for now with the amount of money I already invested into SD2+the SDXs, or maybe I'm simply waiting for a sale in order to afford the upgrade. In the end it doesn't even matter the reason I have behind, but I can definitely tell you I don't like to be pushed to buy something like this.

A few clicks away Steinberg is running a 50% sale for their Groove Agent 4 & the expansions. You guess which developer is going to get my money today after this story!

bill45
KVRAF
2473 posts since 15 Jun, 2006

Post Thu May 03, 2018 8:59 am

Yeah this stinks! Universal audio did sort off the same With there UAD-1 cards.

starflakeprj
KVRAF
1514 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Thu May 03, 2018 9:08 am

I agree this is weird, why would they discontinue the upgrade? I understand if they'll stop fixing bugs at some point, but c'mon, people should still be able to upgrade? Some developers have upgrades from all previous versions, some only from the latest one or two, and then we have Toontrack, will have no upgrade possibility at all from December 31, 2018?
Intel Core i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro | Arturia AudioFuse | Arturia KeyLab mkII | Arturia SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM | Studio One 5 | Reason 11.3 | Bitwig Studio 3.2 | Reaper 6.1 | Renoise 3.1 | FL Studio 20.7 | ~900 VSTs | ~300+ REs

paterpeter
KVRAF
1802 posts since 15 Oct, 2008 from Germany

Post Thu May 03, 2018 9:36 am

They did the same with EZDrummer back then. A pretty terrible policy. They know those who are committed to SD (ie those who bought a couple of expansions) will have to upgrade. I bet there won't be a discount on the upgrade until then. SD3 looks great, but 179€ is a bit hefty.

Dewdman42
KVRAF
1779 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Post Thu May 03, 2018 9:39 am

Yea I don't like it either and they can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. Steven Slate Drums 5 out soon....I'm going with that.
MacPro 5,1 12core x 3.46ghz-128gb 10.14, X32+AES16e-50

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3065 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Thu May 03, 2018 9:43 am

Yes, quite unnecessary, but on the other hand SD3 is approx 10,000x better than SD2 for me so nose / face etc.
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Dewdman42
KVRAF
1779 posts since 14 Mar, 2006

Post Thu May 03, 2018 9:44 am

no problem with that, but tell me I have a deadline to upgrade or else I can't upgrade later is beyond bizarre, its unethical. Screw those guys.
MacPro 5,1 12core x 3.46ghz-128gb 10.14, X32+AES16e-50

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Omkar
KVRian
909 posts since 25 Dec, 2007 from Hamburg,Germany

Post Fri May 04, 2018 6:43 am

Bizarre ... the first thought that came to my mind as well.

Since I decided to sell expansions in order to finance upgrade,
the timing goes along with my plan on a personal level
but the entire mind-set I can`t find any better term than blackmail.

I see a trend of this alienating shabbiness coming along with several devs,
without naming names: If you read this, stop it!

No rational can be found except a bending perversion of human intelligence
and a base is quicker off than you can say Moo.

Sincerely yours ...
Intel i7-4790K | Gigabyte Z97X-UD3H | 16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport | RME Babyface Pro | UAD PCIe Octo, Quad | Asus GT 730 | Toshiba DT01ACA200 2TB | LG GH24NSB0 | W7 Pro SP1 64bit | Samplitude Pro X3 Suite

jsp1979
KVRAF
3250 posts since 7 Aug, 2008

Post Fri May 04, 2018 7:08 am

Exactly. Their reasoning is bullsh*t. You could end support for SD2 without taking away the upgrade path.

greggybud
KVRer
17 posts since 30 May, 2004

Post Sat May 12, 2018 9:04 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Toontrack originally was just drums. I have EZD, EZD2, Superior DFH (which is still sort of cool the gui for mic bleeds) Superior 2 and Superior 3.

Why such a harsh or unusual upgrade policy? My guess is the demand for SD3. With a relatively expensive upgrade price maybe they feel a lot of users are interested, but not ready to pull the trigger?

Toontrack is really known best for their excellent drum programs and libraries. While there is an occasional sale for EZD2, the sales for Superior and sales for Superior upgrades are very rare. That wasn't the case in the early Toontrack years. Many years ago, I paid $50 to upgrade from Superior DFH to Superior 2. Looking at recent annual Black Friday sales, plus their never-ending promotional emals, I don't notice many sales these days for their drum products.

Anyone look at all the EZX packs? After so many packs, just what do you create that hasn't been done in the acoustic drum world? My last purchase was the unique Dreampop. But to be honest, for myself I can't foresee many additional acoustic purchases.

It's sort of like NI releasing never-ending Maschine expansions. When is enough enough? I guess when people stop buying them which in NI's case hasn't happened.

So back to Toontrack. What do you do to create more demand? IMO you diversify to EZ mix, and all the rest of that Toontrack stuff which I could care less about. I rarely get any promotions about their drum line, and if I do it's a lame sale. It seems Toontracks main push these days is their non-drum products...the stuff they have a problem selling.

This tells me, demand is still quite solid for their drum products and they can take a chance by doing this kind of thing. But all their other non-drum products....no way. :lol:

I note that Arturia has done the same with pitches such as "you will never see a lower upgrade price." With Waves, NI, UAD, Toontrack and many more, people usually know the best time is Black Friday. People know when NI usually has it's 50% off summer sale. People know you can get a lot of Waves product for $29 as it's a never-ending sale. You either change up your marketing strategy or customers learn your marketing and have the discipline to wait for the best known sales.

.
Last edited by greggybud on Sat May 12, 2018 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19984 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sat May 12, 2018 9:14 am

emanuelsj wrote:As a SD2 user maybe I don't want to spend on a product which is not mature yet
Who decides when a program is mature enough? SD3 works great, better than SD2 ever did in fact.

greggybud
KVRer
17 posts since 30 May, 2004

Post Sat May 12, 2018 9:51 am

emanuelsj wrote: I don't know you, but I don't like this aggressive marketing pressure.
Neither do I. Ever attend a timeshare sales presentation? It's now or never. You don't get the option to say "let me do some research on the internet and I'll get back to you. :D The question is whether or not it will work. Toontrack seems to think it will work to their benefit.
emanuelsj wrote: As a SD2 user maybe I don't want to spend on a product which is not mature yet, maybe I'm fine for now with the amount of money I already invested into SD2+the SDXs, or maybe I'm simply waiting for a sale in order to afford the upgrade.
Mature yet? :lol: SD3 was long over-due by many years. The GUI is very out-dated. Check the forums begging Toontrack to release a new SD version. I too thought the SD2 to SD3 upgrade was way too expensive. So I decided to wait for Black Friday. Toontrack didn't offer any upgrade sales at that time so then my next option was to purchase the upgrade through Guitar Center during one of their 20% off everything in the store sales. Since it's "now or never" for SD3 maybe Black Friday 2018 they will have an upgrade sale? No one knows for sure. Look at the tutorials for SD3. It is a huge upgrade. Whether or not the tool is worth it depends on your own objectives.
emanuelsj wrote: In the end it doesn't even matter the reason I have behind, but I can definitely tell you I don't like to be pushed to buy something like this.


Saying "now or never" can be a great marketing tactic. It adds some pressure and it gets people off the fence to make a decision. Now or never can also backfire if they don't get the desired increase in sales, and like you a lot of people simply say no...because they feel pressured.
emanuelsj wrote:A few clicks away Steinberg is running a 50% sale for their Groove Agent 4 & the expansions. You guess which developer is going to get my money today after this story!
You are comparing apples to oranges. While Groove Agent 4 and expansions is very good, it is nothing like the features found in SD3 and the 200gb library of SD3.

LAGinz
KVRist
382 posts since 8 Jan, 2012

Post Sat May 12, 2018 11:14 am

This new strong arm policy is just disgusting. It is clearly a pressure play to get people to buy the upgrade at $200, which in my view is not a fantastic deal. If they stick to these policies, I will never buy another Toontrack product again....period.

noiseboyuk
KVRAF
3065 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Post Sat May 12, 2018 2:56 pm

greggybud wrote:Ever attend a timeshare sales presentation? It's now or never. You don't get the option to say "let me do some research on the internet and I'll get back to you. :D The question is whether or not it will work. Toontrack seems to think it will work to their benefit.
Very well done as the recipient of the Most Hyperbolic Argument of 2018 award (other entries now closed, soz). I get that people don't like the time-limited upgrade thing (neither do I, and I think its a stupid own goal by Toontrack and not worthy of an exceptionally fine product), but you've literally just compared something where you can't do any research on the internet with something where you get to do 7 months of research on the internet.

Congratulations!
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http://www.sound-on-screen.com
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greggybud
KVRer
17 posts since 30 May, 2004

Post Sat May 12, 2018 7:26 pm

noiseboyuk wrote: Very well done as the recipient of the Most Hyperbolic Argument of 2018 award (other entries now closed, soz). I get that people don't like the time-limited upgrade thing (neither do I, and I think its a stupid own goal by Toontrack and not worthy of an exceptionally fine product), but you've literally just compared something where you can't do any research on the internet with something where you get to do 7 months of research on the internet.

Congratulations!
LOL thank you. Thank you very much. Yes too hyperbolic I agree.

SD3, they give you until the end of the year. Sure is nice of them huh? :D
UAD, iirc they gave just a couple months to decide on the upgrade from UAD 1 to UAD 2.
Timeshare Sales, approximately 90 minutes if you can suffer through that much babble.

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